System Protects Power

[u/PleasantBus5583]

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[u/Hashsum88]

capitalize profits, socialize losses. Welcome to modern era capitalism

edit: i meant ‘privatize’ profits!

[u/JiuJitsuBoxer → u/Hashsum88]

I’d call it corporatism. Capitalism would not subsidize losses.

[u/Talonqr → u/JiuJitsuBoxer]

You're going to get comments arguing about whether this is capitalism or not

Venture capitalism, techno-feudilsm etc etc

The label is irrelevant because at its core its always the same issue no matter the system; the rich/powerful vs everyone else

[u/sedativumxnx → u/Talonqr]

It's all bullshit meant to distract us. To divide us, into groups. What group thinks what or so on. At its core it's exactly that, the rich and powerful versus the working class, first of all, and then after all the future generations that they mean to exploit in order to magnify their profits. More and more and more, bleeding everyone and everything dry, like a cancer. That's the future of what's going on right now with extremism and corporate worshipping.

Oh, shit, I forgot about global warming. But that's another story.

[u/DoobieSpark → u/sedativumxnx]

The entire system developed on this planet was either designed or evolved to elicit a hierarchy of competition among groups, in which Darwin pronounced as 'survival of the fittest'. Even the human group was subdivided into races and skin colors to produce vying or a struggle to survive.

[u/stilljustacatinacage → u/Talonqr]

The purpose of a system is what it does. "ThAtS NoT REaL --" is a pointless argument regardless of which C a person is arguing for. People are more concerned with getting a pat on the back for proper use of terminology than doing the uncomfortable mental labour of recognizing that... all of this, all of it, is broken.

[u/NTB369 → u/Talonqr]

Right? Capitalism is more of a method than any other thing. At the end of the day, is the milenial old struggle

[u/Ok-Chef1896 → u/JiuJitsuBoxer]

Call it whatever you want but it is a logical outcome of capitalism.

Capitalism leads to accumulation of capital, capital has a political power, that political power is used to consolidate the capital which leads to further growth of capital...

[u/SensitiveShelter2550 → u/JiuJitsuBoxer]

No this is just capitalism. This is its inevitable progression.

[u/BrittanyBrie → u/SensitiveShelter2550]

Capitalism is economic law, its present in any economy including communism.

[u/SensitiveShelter2550 → u/BrittanyBrie]

Capitalism is economic law,

There is no such thing as a single, transhistorical "economic law" that applies to all societies.

What exists are laws of motion specific to each mode of production.

Feudalism had its own internal logic (land tenure, tribute, serfdom); ancient slavery had its own; and capitalism has its own (the law of value, the tendency of the rate of profit to fall, accumulation).

To say "capitalism is economic law" is like saying "feudalism is political law". It erases history and treats a very recent, specific system (only a few centuries old) as a natural, eternal fact of human existence. Capitalism is proven to be historically specific in that it had a beginning and will have an end.

its present in any economy

This confuses commodity production (making things to exchange) with capitalist production (making things to extract surplus value/profit). Yes, almost all societies have had some form of trade, markets, or exchange. But capitalism is not markets. Capitalism is a specific social relation in which:

• The means of production (factories, land, machinery) are privately owned by a capitalist class.
• The majority of people are propertyless and must sell their labour-power as a commodity just to survive.
• The entire purpose of production is not to satisfy human needs, but to generate profit (surplus value) through the endless accumulation of capital.

A peasant selling a chicken at a medieval market is not "capitalism." A state-run factory in a planned economy that produces for social use, not profit, is not "capitalism." Markets can exist within socialism or communism; capitalism cannot exist without wage-labour and private ownership of the productive apparatus.

including communism.

No, just no.

We explicitly define communism as the abolition of capitalism's foundational pillars:

• Abolition of private property in the means of production (replaced by social or common ownership).
• Abolition of wage-labour (labour becomes freely associated activity, not a commodity sold to a boss).
• Abolition of the law of value (production is organised according to human need and rational planning, not according to exchange-value, profit, or market fluctuations).

In a communist society, there is no capitalist class, no exploitation of labour for surplus value, no stock markets, no CEOs extracting unearned wealth, and no "fiduciary duty" to maximise profit. You will still have distribution of goods, even exchange of some items, but that is not capitalism – just as having a knife does not make you a surgeon. The social relations are what define the system, not the mere presence of money or trade.

[u/oddvacation3849 → u/JiuJitsuBoxer]

"Corporatism" thats what mussolini called his system in private by the way.

[u/Migraine_b0y → u/JiuJitsuBoxer]

Exactly. If we were in a capitalist society all thise companies woud have gone bankrupt in 2009

[u/rbb36 → u/Hashsum88]

And if the data centers, AI models, and chip fabs - all of which are involved in circular leveraged investing - fail to meet their implausible demand forecasts, there will be a collapse.

They will say, "If we don't keep going, China will beat us!" They will say, "Noone could have predicted this." And they will say, "We are the only ones with the foresight to guide us forward," despite having just fallen flat on their faces regarding investment foresight.

And they will ask for the largest bailout in history.

Tell everyone about this, now. If a collapse starts, everyone needs to start contacting their congresspeople immediately to demand that the billionaires do not get bailed out. Everyone needs to be aware of this in advance, or they're going to take trillions from the commoners and give it to the billionaires whose fault it will be.

[u/Assonfire → u/rbb36]

You can tell everybody about this. In fact, even if everybody you tell believes you. It will not change a thing.

I don't believe there's a point of return with the current system. Modern day pitchforks are needed, if you want any form of true justice. The majority of those billionaires lack morals, so fear is the only thing that might drive them towards the good side of history.

And when I say billionaires, I also mean the majority of the multi-millionaires.

[u/rbb36 → u/Assonfire]

It may not change the government's response, but in that case, it would foment the anger that is needed for the other thing you suggest.

If the masses see it coming, and speak en masse, and are rejected - it will be a more poignant betrayal. Each additional person who sees it coming adds to the potency of the reaction.

[u/EduinBrutus → u/rbb36]

Hey dont worry about it.

When it pops, its going to take everyones pensions and other savings with it. And its far too large for government bailouts at this point. But those at the top of the "AI" fraud will no doubt have extracted hundreds of billions before that happens.

And of course, if by some miracle someone suddenly works out how to actually deliver any of the bullshit claims, no-one is going to have a job or any money anyway...

Heads they win, tails we lose.

[u/tenax21 → u/Hashsum88]

Billionaires using their influence over government to make government bail them out is regulatory/state capture producing an oligarchic or plutocratic outcome.

People will disagree on how much capture is actually happening versus governments choosing bailouts for other reasons (systemic risk, unemployment prevention, etc.).

[u/becauseiloveyou → u/tenax21]

I mean, look at who consistently votes and look at who established the nation 250 years ago. Then think about who has since upheld and enforced those laws. The rest of us have had to fight for a seat at the table, and too many of us take it for granted. There's a status quo, and it's intentionally structured to protect those with wealth, property, and access. When the working class, the poor, women, people of color, the LGBTQ+ community, persons with "disabilities," and other historically oppressed groups of people don't meaningfully participate to eliminate that status quo, then we continue to perpetuate a system that was built to benefit those who put its wheels in motion centuries ago.

[u/DoobieSpark → u/Hashsum88]

That would be accurate except for the part where the profits are taxed, which makes the profits socialized.

[u/Hashsum88 → u/DoobieSpark]

hold my beer

[u/Flashy_Object_7052 → u/Hashsum88]

Capitalism's greatest achievement may be convincing millions that if they're struggling, they're just temporarily embarrassed millionaires waiting for their turn.

[u/doopie → u/Hashsum88]

When government bails out a bank, it protects accounts of regular people. Hardline capitalist would let these banks fall.

[u/Norse_By_North_West]

The auto one is a bit different. The bailout was the government basically buying the two companies, keeping it running, and later selling for a profit. Lots of rich people lost their shares for pennies on the dollar. I don't remember if the c suite lost any jobs or not.

[u/Murky-Relation481 → u/Norse_By_North_West]

Also while the PPP program was mismanaged and didn't have enough over sight it was intended for the loans to be forgiven if they were used to keep employees on during the pandemic. That's a good idea in practice. I think calling them loans instead of conditional grants was what confused a lot of people. They were never intended to be paid back.

[u/cuentabasque → u/Murky-Relation481]

They needed to use a program that directly covered salaries and avoided just giving money directly to ownership.

Instead the PPP program wasn't just built on trust but essentially became a near trillion dollar slush fund (that was almost immediately levered by many to buy houses and financial assets) that promoted outright financial fraud and incredibly enriched the very people that didn't need help.

Meanwhile the press was going bonkers trying to spin how ridiculous it was to send individuals $1,500 one-time checks.

No, the PPP program wasn't a good idea; it was one of our generations greatest thefts by the top 5% of our population and helped set off the housing inflation and affordability crisis we continue to experience til today.

[u/PM_YOUR_ISSUES → u/cuentabasque]

I mean, in the vast majority of cases, if not all of them, the money did directly cover salaries. That wasn't how people grifted the money from PPP loans.

Payroll is often 50% or more of a business' expenditures. So, if a company does $1 million in business a month, ~500,000 of that is likely to go towards payroll. During the pandemic, the assumption was that your business was going to shut down, running on a skeleton crew, so you were only expected to make $250,000 per month, which means the government needs to 'loan' you $250,000 so that you can keep all of your employees on payroll and still pay them even if they aren't working.

But what if you just ... don't shut down? Or your business doesn't actually decrease? Now you've gotten $250,000 from the government for payroll, you use that $250,000 to pay payroll, but you still made your normal $1 million per month. That leaves you with an extra $250,000 profit that you normally wouldn't have that you can just do anything with.

That's how most of the PPP money was 'embezzled', 'stolen', or 'misappropriated'. Nearly all of the money from PPP loans did directly go to paying payroll. They were just paying the payroll for businesses that weren't actually impacted by COVID and thus those businesses just saw a massive amount of free profit which could go directly to the C-suite/business owners.

You are right that the PPP loans weren't a good idea. Instead, it should have been an unemployment type situation where individual people could get X% of their salary for Y months.

[u/Mitosis → u/PM_YOUR_ISSUES]

I ran a single one-person business and was just about to submit for a PPP loan I absolutely didn't need (to pay my own salary) when they implemented an emergency measure that the business had to be a certain size. I had dragged my feet because obviously this program didn't apply to businesses like mine until my payment processor reached out saying it did and here's how to apply.

Obviously I shouldn't have gotten one anyway, but the fact that it was ultimately yet another measure favoring larger businesses over small ones (on top of mandatory shutdowns etc) certainly didn't help anything.

[u/Efficient_Can4700 → u/cuentabasque]

And it's a great idea, but you have a problem of being able to do it fast enough to get money out to everyone that needed it at the time. Creating a new system to do that would of taken a lot more time.

Any kind of "free" will cause inflation and risk creating affordability crisis.

[u/andtheniansaid → u/Norse_By_North_West]

i dont know about the airline one, but many of the individual bank bailouts ended up profitable. we lost quite a lot in the UK but mainly from one bank (NatWest) and if we'd kept the shares longer we could have pretty much broken even.

essentially the bailouts involve the purchasing of shares or assets which i think a lot of people miss, and think money is just being handed over to companies. this did happen with PPP loans but they were meant to pay salaries, it was just a quickly introduced scheme that got mismanaged and taken abuse of.

[u/MalHeartsNutmeg → u/Norse_By_North_West]

2008 banks was different too, the banks didn't want the money, the government insisted and the banks paid it all back with interest. But nah should have let the banks collapse.

[u/tajsta → u/MalHeartsNutmeg]

Yeah it's a strange post overall. European countries didn't bail their banks out as quickly as the US and it's pretty much universally agreed upon that the US had the far better response. Europe basically had a second recession in 2012 and it also played a role in the Eurozone Sovereign Debt Crisis. Not bailing out the banks led to a lost decade for many European countries and especially our youth. Several European countries had youth unemployment rates of 50% due to that.

[u/PleasantBus5583]

Rich are getting richer ,poor are getting poorer

[u/ImpressiveWalrus7369 → u/PleasantBus5583]

Rich and poor are both getting richer, but rich are getting richer much faster

[u/Poshturkjgdy45]

The system doesn't make mistakes, it just has a preferred customer program.

[u/Chris_Shawarma93 → u/Poshturkjgdy45]

You could argue the system makes a mistake in the context of long term consequences. Like a virus obsessed with self replication at the expense of killing its host down the road. 

[u/Gefpenst → u/Poshturkjgdy45]

State protects ruling class. That's first and foremost function of state, protection from within and without. Capitalism state protects, who would have thought, capital. It's right in the name.

[u/negativ32]

Your lack of understanding the repercussions of allowing those to fail is transparent.

Those who ALLOWED them to fail should be held to FULL account but the industries deserve support because of the thousands they employ.

[u/Captainsnarkyshart]

I just want healthcare

[u/mustangcody → u/Captainsnarkyshart]

If there was Healthcare I wouldn't care what the rich was doing.

[u/Poschta → u/mustangcody]

You should always care what the rich are doing.

They're dismantling our Healthcare system right now. And our politics. And our worker's rights. Makes me think that maybe, just maybe, people simply shouldn't be able to aggregate so much wealth and power in the first place.

[u/LobsterResponsible17]

And in 2022 when the average worker could quit a job and find another the same day, Wallstreet called workers lazy cuz fir the first time in our lifetimes We had the power to choose.

[u/GeckoGecko_ → u/LobsterResponsible17]

It's insane the difference in the job market between then and now.

I could go on indeed and land a phone interview the very next day after just a bit of searching, and knew I would most likely get the job after the interview. Now, it takes dozens and dozens of applications over days, weeks, or even months to get an interview, and you're competing with at least 100 other people who might have more experience and/or education than you do, or might be willing to take the job for a lower hourly rate, so each interview is an absolute gamble as to whether you're going to get the job. I hate this so much

[u/grazfest96]

Sips Tea is just bot city these days huh?

[u/Exciting_Milk_6691]

Because banks, auto, airlines and major corporations provide employment, giving the government a stable tax base…

If they all fail, there will be no employment.

[u/luk71]

Banks not being bailed out would cripple most normal people who had their money in said banks. Airlines had to be bailed out when you introduced govt restrictions so severe killing their entire business model.

Why are leftists so dumb

[u/lWingedHussarl]

Citizens also got stimulus checks and enhanced unemployment payments.

[u/Analyst-Effective]

The economy would have collapsed altogether, if not though most of those programs

[u/Sad-Astronomer-696]

Funny how people still call this capitalism even tho its literally 0/10 capitalism

[u/hitnrun_dryer]

So you would rather have a Great Depression and zero car industry. In 2008,2009 and you pretend Covid didn’t exist. Everything closed Most of us who ran businesses would have closed and laid off our workforce. The millionaire class I worked for would have been fine. The government paid us to stay open. The ppp loans were based strictly on employees it wasnt for us the buy swimming pools and airplanes it was to pay employees when we hand no one the sell products to.
This stupid Narrative bullshit
I bet you can’t tell me the exact act that caused the 2008 crash. But you eat up this bullshit because it says billionaires bad. Come on tell me. You just can’t.

[u/confidentlyfish → u/hitnrun_dryer]

Let the market do its thing - die

[u/jeffwulf]

The government made money on the bank bailouts.

[u/Speartree → u/jeffwulf]

Hey, all those mentioned years are when there was a Republican president. Such fiscal responsibility!

[u/Petoski-Brook]

The citizens got bailed out with COVID monthly money when they couldn’t work. The citizens got snap when their income was too low for food for their family. The citizens got section 8 housing when they couldn’t afford a more expensive home. The citizens got utility assistance when they didn’t make enough for their family. The citizens got help from fema during most disasters. The citizens had government run ems help them in their times of need. Stop being childish and acting like the government doesn’t do anything.

[u/Few-Bag-4860]

Tariff refunds going back to corporations, not joe-consumer.

[u/Global_Sugar3660]

And the public was charged through inflation to cover these bailouts.

[u/Xancrazy]

Some companies provide services that the government wants to keep alive for the benefit of the people.

You want the banks to fail but you don't want to lose all your money?
You want car companies to fail but don't want to see car prices rise massively?

etc.

[u/Bright-War-5033]

"Socialism for the rich".....this just signals the failure of capitalism if anything.

[u/Additional_Gas3859]

Pull yourself up by your "boot straps". You forgot that last part by the famous reganomics Ronald McDonald.

[u/Bikelangello]

The system doesn't fail billionaires. Let's get this straight right now.

The billiomaires have failed the working class upon whose backs the system was built.

We are all John Galt and Atlas is about to shrug the whole world off his shoulders.

[u/Single-Brick-3995 → u/Bikelangello]

yeah, the system doesn't fail the billionaires, they just make more and more risky gambles until they crash and burn and get bailed out

[u/Bikelangello → u/Single-Brick-3995]

Yep.

[u/hitnrun_dryer → u/Bikelangello]

I don’t know if your first sentence is absolute. There are great examples of billionaires being propped up using policy , taxes, trade. How ever what happened to Lehmans?
Your second sentence is spot on Cause of all our problems, all.
Third sentence great We are. And just like she said if he shrugs everyone it fucked , how did cave men clean their water

[u/Bikelangello → u/hitnrun_dryer]

I guess I'm not sure you read it correctly.

I said "the system doesn't fail billionaires" and you are talking about "idk there are examples of billionaires being propped up".

That's what I said...but you say what about Lehman Bros.

Some firms are allowed to fail bc their CEO won't kiss the ring...that is bc of personal infighting among the elite, not a sign that perhaps thwre is no us and them after all.

There totally is.

[u/Bikelangello → u/Bikelangello]

People won't just keep working and paying taxes if the system gets much more unequal...think about what it would be like!

They'd just refuse to participate anymore once death felt to them preferable. Atlas would shrug.

[u/Hot_Neighborhood5668]

The government has made these corporations "too big to fail" from their own pride and ego.

Nothing is too big to fail. Look at history at one point. The British owned the world the sun never set on the English empire, and now look at it. The Soviet Union was massive and had billions of residence. Russia is trying to relive those days by any and all means.

The auto industry has been basically eating itself for several decades, in my opinion.

The rich have always found means to expand that's human nature if history tells us anything. It doesn't matter the system IMHO.

[u/Initial_Hedgehog_631]

Yes because unemployment, Medicaid, food stamps, welfare, and a myriad of other government programs don't exist.

[u/Ffffqqq]

Trump's first term farmer bailouts cost $28 billion and second term so far has been another $12 billion. Over 3x more than Obama's auto bailout. And Trump created the problem.

[u/Nannautu → u/Ffffqqq]

Don't forget the recent 81 bln he has to pay back companies because of increased tariffs. Tariffs that led those companies to sell at a higher price and now will get a higher margin. All paid by taxpayer money.

[u/Long_Serpent]

"I don't have to do anything - YOU do!"

[u/Dap-aha]

Oligarchy

This is how Oligarchy works

[u/doolpicate]

I mean if the rich pay for the senators and congressmen, they get the benefits. Democracy as it stands right now is an eyewash. The real power is corporate money.

[u/Sensitive-Cat-6069]

And who works at these banks, automakers, airlines, etc.??? Not regular middle class people?

Would you rather have all these companies fail, lay off hundreds of thousands (millions?) of employees, who would then draw even more from the government in unemployment benefits than the money used to keep these businesses afloat - and yet still lose their homes? Think about the secondary effect of all major automakers going under - how many suppliers and service providers will they drag down with them???

And you know who would still be just fine in that terrible situation? The billionaires that you are so obsessed with. You are basically advocating for hurting an enormous number of regular working families just to make the billionaires feel some light toothache. Maybe.

To top this enormous stupidity off, these are all public companies. There is no billionaire who controls Ford, GM, Stellantis, Delta or American Airlines. They all belong to multiple shareholders - not least of which are 401k and pension funds. Again, impacting regular working people in completely unrelated industries.

Just a completely, utterly stupid rage bait. Wow.

[u/Distinct_Jelly_3232 → u/Sensitive-Cat-6069]

Prosecute crimes.

Failure is an option.

If you socialize risk you must socialize profits.

If legal entities enjoy the rights and freedoms of a human, so too the consequences.

Easy. Peasy.

[u/LufyCZ → u/Distinct_Jelly_3232]

Profits were socialized, the state made money on the bailouts (even if barely).

These companies also pay crazy amount of f.e. payroll taxes, those would be gone if the companies disappeared.

It was a good deal for everyone.

[u/Impossible_Cupcake31 → u/Sensitive-Cat-6069]

They don’t care man. They’re 100% for millions being out of jobs to stick it to the billionaires. Who will still be billionaires

[u/luk71 → u/Impossible_Cupcake31]

They would rather have rich people be poor than poor be rich. That’s what their entire politics are based on, envy and nothing else.

[u/WhoopsDroppedTheBaby]

Ragebait meme.

[u/Alan_Turings_Apple]

We did get several stimulus checks.

[u/EmploymentNo3590 → u/Alan_Turings_Apple]

Like $5k over the course of a decade

[u/Temporary_Housing918 → u/EmploymentNo3590]

All that trickle down wealth really helped me out lmao

[u/RonJohnJr]

You must not realize how many people get "bailed out" every single month to the tune of $4 trillion per year.

[u/Umutuku]

The rich: "If you don't give us billions of working taxpayer dollars then thousands of workers will be out of work!"

A sane country: "Well, you have proven you can't be trusted to run a successful business so we may have to invest those billions in helping those workers build a life that isn't dependent on losers like you."

[u/solress]

Socialism is for the poor too? What do you call Medicare? Medicaid? Food stamps? Scholarships? There are so many socialist programs built to help the poor...

[u/sunshine-power → u/solress]

We pay way less in taxes for that than we do for corporations. We could have funded Bernie Sanders medicare for all with how much money the war on Iran has burned.

[u/solress → u/sunshine-power]

Sure, but it's untrue that socialism is only for the rich when we have so many social programs for the poor...

[u/sunshine-power → u/solress]

Those social programs don’t do enough is the point.

[u/YakResident_3069]

This is what happens when money, lobbyists， super PAC, all of it can buy off politicians

I mean tale as old as time but guys like al Capone showed us how bad it could get and we ignored the warning.

[u/richiedaggersgerms]

Can we talk about the rising cost of the educational system in the US? Let’s also address the salaries of most chancellors or presidents of the universities.

[u/irvmuller → u/richiedaggersgerms]

Administration in general. It’s a problem. Teachers hate when districts become too top heavy. I teach 28 students but get paid what the govt spends on 4 of them.

[u/Oakl4nd]

Who do you think suffer if those banks didn't get bailed out?

[u/PakuaRust → u/Oakl4nd]

Buddy, it was theft by the capital ownership class. The money didn't just evaporate. Houses in 2008 were STOLEN from property owners by the banks and the banks got bailed out. Save your bootlicking bullshit.

[u/IraceRN → u/PakuaRust]

Businesses were forced by the government to close during the pandemic with considerable losses in revenue/income. Who would own the US auto industry or would it have crashed completely? During the pandemic, the median household (two adults and two kids) received around $11,400, so it wasn't nothing.

[u/PakuaRust → u/IraceRN]

Learn how to craft a coherent thought. You just jump from the pandemic to the auto industry bailout, huh? Like, wtf are you even trying to say. Youre just babbling.

[u/IraceRN → u/PakuaRust]

OP made a list. I just did some bullet points formatted differently and in a non-linear timeline. So? I'm sure you could figure it out.

The auto industry bailout saved some potential 1.2-1.5m jobs and the industry represented 5% of total GDP. An estimated dozen major banks would have gone under, representing 15% of GDP, and radically reshaping the economic landscape, especially for those most vulnerable down the line. Save a few businesses and banks, so they can back to business as usual and paying employees as usual, or try to create jobs for millions and pay never ending relief? Hmmm. Restructuring millions of loans, so people and the bank were each bailed out?

[u/Wehti → u/IraceRN]

Peanutts.

[u/qcKruk → u/Oakl4nd]

Why did the banks get to be bailed out AND also get to foreclose on all the bad loans for which they were bailed out? It should have been pick one, accept a bailout and all the bad loans go away or keep doing business like you do and no bailout money for you.

[u/NotAZombieStopAsking → u/qcKruk]

The bailouts were low interest loans that were repaid by the banks within a couple of years so...

[u/ButterscotchSmooth60]

Little Pains for long term pains.

[u/Fuckthegopers]

That's not socialism bud.

[u/Old_Commission7428]

This is not news.

It just needs your attention 

[u/ZasdfUnreal]

Kids these days don’t remember the Savings and Loan crisis of the 80s.

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[u/Adorable-Distance-63]

let me complete the quote for you ;

System protects power, because without power there is no system!

U think its wrong for government to bail out these billionaires, but if one billionaire goes down a million strong populace go down with them. You can say these businesses are necessary for government. If i have to simplify it, Government is one big buisness administration itself, it takes funding from us or sells us security and wellfare and these businesses are part of its wellfare market that it maintains, if one crumbles , it takes decades to set up new one and revenue and facilities coming out of it will be stopped for the period.

[u/No-Seesaw6320]

And yet those are the same politicians that you want to control your socialist "utopia".

[u/Whole-Energy2105]

My mental illness and serious spine damage has me in debt fairly hard. They don't want to aid in any way, just letters of demand and fines upon fines if I can't meet their terms. I'm a small business that means fuck all to them except we are all cash cows. Eat the fucking rich.

[u/ToTooTwoTutu2II]

Pretty much. 90% of big business is publicly owned... by the rich. It is Socialism for the rich.

[u/Objective_Mousse7216]

The system is wired to privatise profits and nationalise losses. The system must be destroyed.

[u/reply_b4_banned]

Power is the system.

[u/Kwinza]

2008 - The gov bailouts actually turned a profit in the US and UK (probably did else where too but I don't have that data)

2009 - The gov didn't bailout the auto industry, they literally bought the companies and again, turned a profit.

2020 - Same as above only no profit yet, be we need airlines and they likely will turn a profit in the coming years.

2020 v2 - Yeah ok no excuse here, the PPP loans being forgiven is borderline criminal.

[u/Ok-Go-Chain3811]

y'all got anymore of them bootstraps?

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[u/ReasonableAuthor8999]

This meme is very accurate. I am 100% against socialism for the record. I think all of those businesses should have had to “figure” it out with the exception of the PPP recipients. That was program should have never happened because the government should have never locked down the people.

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[u/abbaziadicefalu]

I live in an electric vehicle.

Rent would be ~75% of my wages.

So I’m doing my part!

[u/whatdoyasay369]

Solution: Socialism for no one, individual responsibility for everyone.

[u/Nice_Block]

Republicans love giving their money away to rich people. It’s the only way they feel like they have a purpose

[u/Sooowasthinking]

We arent billionaires so we are left out.Billionaires and their ilk are not like us.The largest divide we have is money but the biggest difference IMHO is health insurance.Billionaires just don’t need it.

Never trust a billionaire.

[u/septidan]

"The system fails the billionaire class"? Please, these are their fuck ups.

[u/Seth_Mithik]

Boop—where the checks all us Americans were supposed to get? From the tariffs? 7k? 8k? Nahh, went to bomb more children and help build “settlements”

[u/bigorangemachine]

Privatize gains.... socialize the losses

[u/Fantastic-Hamster-21]

PPP loans should not be in the conversation that is just complete misinformation. PPP loans kept small businesses afloat and employees paid during a mandatory government shutdown due to a global pandemic. All of my clients were getting those loans because everyone needed to. Honestly as an accountant I hated those loans because they were just extra work but they were necessary for the economy's survival.

[u/tribriguy]

Banks weren’t stabilized because policymakers loved bankers. They were stabilized because allowing the financial system to collapse would have devastated millions of ordinary people’s savings, jobs, retirement accounts, and businesses. The auto industry was rescued to avoid a manufacturing collapse. Airlines received support after governments effectively shut down air travel. PPP wasn’t simply a “corporate giveaway.” It was an emergency wage subsidy that kept millions of workers connected to employers, even if it was imperfect and suffered from fraud and poor oversight.

You can absolutely argue many of these interventions were poorly designed, unfairly administered, or created moral hazard. Those are legitimate criticisms.

What you can’t honestly argue is that they only benefited billionaires. The people cheering this post would almost certainly have been far worse off if these interventions hadn’t happened. Billionaires don’t live in a vacuum. They own banks that process your paycheck, companies that employ millions of people, airlines that move commerce, and manufacturers with vast supply chains. When those systems fail, the damage doesn’t stop with wealthy investors. It cascades through the entire economy.

The real question isn’t whether governments should ever intervene during systemic crises. It’s how to stabilize critical systems while minimizing moral hazard, protecting taxpayers, and ensuring those who took excessive risks bear appropriate consequences. That’s a far more serious conversation than pretending every intervention is simply “socialism for the rich.”

[u/HotTourist8915]

That is why there is no longer a middle class. Private ventures that fail should not receive government assistance. This principle should become law. During challenging periods, new companies may emerge with innovations.

[u/Rough_Extension_7053]

The government bailing them out almost feels like rewarding for failing.

[u/ecuat]

Absolutely right. Totally agree with you. And that is the system. Masquerading as democracy. It’s elite rule with media and educational propaganda to make us believe we matter.

[u/confidentlyfish]

r/SocialismIsCapitalism

[u/Wide-Bet4379]

Individuals got COVID checks.

[u/Ill-Bullfrog-5360]

Be fair the profits from 2008 were massive. We did not lose as tax payers at all

[u/sharkenskio_0]

thanks for always speaking the truth, Gon.

[u/mlz0818]

Idiots

[u/enjdusan]

That’s a bit of an oversimplification.

Letting banks, the auto industry, and so on go under would ultimately lead to a far greater crisis affecting hundreds of thousands, even millions of people - and could easily result in a much deeper global economic crisis.

I’m not saying I like the interdependence between governments and large corporations (that’s very bad), and those bailouts are just treating the symptoms, not the causes. But unfortunately, there’s no other way right now.

[u/HotPersonality8126]

PPP is why you kept your job during COVID, it was almost literally a check written to your employer to pay you

You were who was bailed out by PPP

[u/CreepyOldGuy63]

And fools continue to vote D and R to maintain this garbage.

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[u/CarelessAction6045]

Corps pay the gov. Gov makes laws for corps. "The correlation between corporations and state, is fascism"

[u/Roux_My_Burgundy]

So let all the businesses that pay people fail? Brilliant strategy.

[u/Background_Winter_65]

We pay, they profit.

[u/VikingsLad]

That's why the AI bubble has me worried all over again

[u/kon---]

Right so, Jeremy there is doing a flase equivalent. You can not compare whole ass industries or in the case of PPP loans, whole ass sectors of business to individuals.

What you can do is look at the greed of the banking industry during TARP. The banks were bailed out by US taxpayers and banking executives still showed up collecting MASSIVE bonuses. They had torpedo'd their industry but still got paid billions in executive bonuses.

Unfortunately, TARP legislation lacked any conditions on executive bonus payouts. There was no law that allowed the US Treasury to go after the compensation executives gave themselves.

Auto and airline bailouts had executive bonuses sat on. Auto execs and airline execs, those poor people had to get by on their salaries (bummer I know). PPP loans, well, that happened at a time when a certain pedophile was using the Treasury to buy votes when he was all too happy to send out checks with his name on them.

[u/Tripple_T]

FWIW we learned what happens when banks don't get bailed out in the '30s

[u/Sure_Constant1368]

Shit post. If industry will go bankrupt people will lose their jobs. Everybody will lose. It's not about rich getting richer

[u/PfauFoto]

What do you expect when the median net worth of member of congress is somewhere between 5 to 10 times the median US household net worth? In case of the senate the factor is closer to 20x.

Then again the people cheer when their favorite candidate leads in election funding, which just means he collected more money for selling his voters interest to the highest bidder.

"... government of the people, by the people, for the people" Abraham Lincoln, Gettysburg 1863 this ideal is clearly struggling.

[u/DingoMaximum7319]

Do you think your life would be better right now if they didnt bail those out

[u/Timmsh88 → u/DingoMaximum7319]

I dont see that argument being made.

[u/johnstanton888999]

Why they give campaign contributions

[u/Aggravating_Pear6221]

revolt

[u/JSaysHi]

100%. Just look at pro sports teams owners, they all use socialist concepts to protect themselves. 

[u/hitnrun_dryer → u/JSaysHi]

Yes they get free stadiums. However, the voting public allows it and wants it.

[u/JSaysHi → u/hitnrun_dryer]

It's also revenue sharing, the draft system, and luxury taxes. 

Edit:  Also they don't want to pay for billionaires stadiums, they are forced to subsidize stadiums under threat of their team moving to a despite market who will pay.

[u/UnnamedLand84]

"Oh, you had to spend an extra $85 a month on supplies for your business because of a BLATANTLY ILLEGAL tax, so we are going to give Amazon an extra $1500 of your tax dollars to make it right"

[u/cookeryandwookery]

Corporate welfare queens run this country. Elon musk made literally everything off our money. Our social safety net is in his stock portfolio quite literally.

[u/balrob]

It was an opportunity lost. The free market shat its pants and the people fixed it. “The people” should have got equity for their trouble and be enjoying the dividends.

[u/Euphoric_Anxiety_162]

This is unrealistic & ppl do not deserve this type of treatment. Ppl who went to war for this country now get booted into the street? Infants born needing treatments to function? You'd deny them the chance? It is extremely short-ssighted to expect cutting ppl off programs will put money in trumps hands. It is uunfair & inhumane.

[u/Femboy_Harem_Janitor]

That's just capitalism

[u/mythorus]

Profit for the investors, losses for the community.

[u/UsedPart7823]

And we tolerate it? 🤔🤷‍♂️

[u/cran-ky-berry]

Someone just woke up. Welcome to the world how it has always been. You were forced to believe otherwise because that's "freedom".

[u/PerformanceQuick5354]

USA is the most communist country on the planet. With what they gave the banks this eclipses every other commie country

[u/AnubisBoudreaux]

Capitalist socialism. It’s fucked

[u/NemoSkittles]

Forgive student loans 😩😩😩😩😩😩😩😩

[u/Busterlimes]

Capitalist systems favor capitalists.

[u/Dahleh-Llama]

Trickle down my fucking taint

[u/itnice]

Privatizing the profits, socializing the losses

[u/MaitrePuck]

Banks should have been allowed to fail and their customers to lose all their savings.

Other companies should have been allowed to fail and their millions of employees sent to the unemployment line.

[u/Ok_________oi]

The banks got bailed out in 2008 and every single month since

[u/vilokreddy]

Capitalism for the poor, socialism for the rich.

[u/Ploxl]

And then they like to spout praise to the "free-market". If it was actually a free-market then we would let failing businesses fail. Bailing out goes directly against the principles of the free market. It's ridiculous

[u/user_deleted_or_dead]

Private profits but when they need bail, its socialized losses. As the governament will bail them out And yet some how i need to get at.least 3 months of emergency money as they will not bail me out if i get a rought path

[u/urejt]

Intel go bailed by usa gov.

[u/Oddbeme4u]

funny story: "Pull Yourself by Your Bootstraps" was a 19th century joke. Because its impossible.

[u/RainFudge]

Privatize the profits, socialize the losses. Every single time

[u/biryani-half]

This practice goes way back. If you ever have time, read what went wrong with capitalism by Ruchir Sharma. Amazing book that covers government bailouts in depth, among other things.

[u/atkahu]

That is not socialism it's capitalism at it's finest.

[u/JalelTounsi]

And socialism is bad, for some reason.

-- every republican senator

[u/RetroDaddyMac]

A right wing radio host here in little old Melbourne, before it was cool to be RW, described it as "privatise the profits, socialise the losses".

[u/TemoteJiku]

Isn't it still inherently a capitalism? They "serve" the capital, die for it, jump for it, etc. The regular people are nothing, capital is everything.

What kind of methods they use to defend their capital, mostly irrelevant, when it comes to negative results. Eventually whoever possesses the juiciest one, be bailed out, while you and your tiny savings be thrown under the bus?

[u/Master_Constant8103]

Thats why I supported what happened to spirit airlines. No company should be too big to fail.

[u/frankie_in_paradise]

Y'all also got a bail out by Biden no? During Covid-19

[u/Kitchen-Onion-4811]

Capitalism is great as long as you can afford it. ;)

[u/BCECVE]

You missed the biggest of them all, in war the guys in the trenches don't do so well but the bomb makers do OK. WWI, WW2, Korean War, Vietnam, Ukraine, Iraq, Afghan, Libiyan, Sryian, Iran.... to name a few. I got two son's, age 35, 37. I thought they should know because I don't want to lose one.

[u/siah42]

Yep. Just let all the job providing companies go bankrupt and shut down causing many lost jobs for people like you. The toubwould complain the government didnt bail them out. 🙄

[u/comtrends123]

So if I fail to pay a loan, that's my problem but if a billionaire fail to pay their loan, it's everybody problem. Got it.

[u/northeast__nico]

But you also got a check during COVID………..

[u/theoriginalmtbsteve]

You realize they bailed them out because there was also a large potential social impact? Jobs lost, tax revenue gone forever and possibly the very skills to run a particular type of organization if the industry or company was allowed to die?

All you free loaders are getting more cute with language but it doesn’t mean you are correct.

[u/Noodelgawd]

Governments in the US give out trillions of dollars in social welfare handouts every year.

[u/ComprehensiveToe2109 → u/Noodelgawd]

Can you provide a reputable source for that?

Edit: spelling