Great-Grandparents: Unsure, most records were lost

Grandparent:

• Sex: F
• Date, place of birth: 1924, Kalisz, Poland
• Date married: 1947, United States
• Citizenship of spouse: US
• Date divorced: Was divorced but unsure when, never remarried (could find out if it's pertinent)
• Occupation: None, housewife
• Allegiance and dates of military service: none; never in any armed forces, never in the Polish Armed Forces under British command, never PKPR (MOD no-trace letters requested)
• Date, destination for emigration: approx. 1947, US
• Date naturalized: Still researching. I was able to find her on a US census in 1950 which stated that she was not a citizen
• Date, place of death: 2001, US

Parent:

• Sex: F
• Date, place of birth: Feb, 1951, US (in wedlock)
• Date married: US, 1985
• Date divorced: no

You:

• Date, place of birth: 1992, US (in wedlock)

Main question (and background):

My maternal grandmother was a holocaust refugee who fled Poland in the 1930s with her father. Her mother and sister were both captured and killed by the Nazi government. My grandmother eventually made it to France where she met a US soldier and together they emigrated to the US and were married in 1947.

Based on my understanding and limited research there are two potential citizenship rules in play:

1. A Polish woman who married a foreign man loses their citizenship: I have read that this only applies if, as part of marriage, citizenship of the spouses nation immediately transferred. In the US, citizenship does not transfer via marriage.
2. The pre 1951 naturalization in another country: I am still researching this one, as far as the records I have found show, she was not a citizen in 1950 and so I am hopeful she did not become a citizen until 1951 or later.
3. Not sure if it matters but my mother is the second child and the first was born prior to 1951

Assuming 1, 2, 3 do not disqualify me, if I were to find the right papers, would I have a chance of citizenship?

Great-Grandparents:

• Date married: 1926, parish in Galicia (certified copy on order from the archive)
• Date divorced: no

GGM:

• Date, place of birth: 1907, Galicia (per the 1926 marriage record)
• Ethnicity and religion: Polish, Roman Catholic
• Occupation: unknown
• Allegiance and dates of military service: none
• Date, destination for emigration: none, remained in Poland
• Date naturalized: never
• Date, place of death: unknown

GGF:

• Date, place of birth: 1902, village in Galicia (former Austrian partition, Tarnobrzeg area)
• Ethnicity and religion: Polish, Roman Catholic
• Occupation: unknown
• Allegiance and dates of military service: none known
• Date, destination for emigration: none, remained in Poland
• Date naturalized: never
• Date, place of death: unknown

Grandparent:

• Sex: M
• Date, place of birth: 1927, same area in Galicia (Polish birth record held; note: some documents he completed himself later, including his 2008 UK death certificate, say 1925; three independent German administrative registers confirm 1927)
• Date married: 1953, UK
• Citizenship of spouse: British
• Date divorced: no
• Occupation: deported to forced labour in Germany 1942; after the war a civilian guard with a US Labour Service company, discharged as a civilian late 1947 (Arolsen/ITS file, IPN certified, confirms civilian status); IRO assistance application 1947
• Allegiance and dates of military service: none; never in any armed forces, never in the Polish Armed Forces under British command, never PKPR (MOD no-trace letters requested)
• Date, destination for emigration: approx. 1948, UK (EVW pattern, civilian DP)
• Date naturalized: 1961, British (no Polish zezwolenie ever sought)
• Date, place of death: 2008, UK

Parent:

• Sex: M
• Date, place of birth: 1954, UK (in wedlock, before his father's 1961 naturalisation)
• Date married: UK, before 1990
• Date divorced: no

You:

• Date, place of birth: 1990, UK (in wedlock; two brothers with identical claims filing in parallel, plus our father as a fourth applicant)

Main question:

Does the post-war civilian guard employment with a US Labour Service company (1945 to 1947, civilian discharge, Arolsen documented) raise any concern under art. 11 pkt 2 of the 1920 Act or art. 115 ust. 1 of the 1938 conscription law ("obca organizacja wojskowa")? We treat it as civilian employment, not military service, and we hold the IPN certified Arolsen/ITS file, the civilian discharge and the IRO application as evidence. Planning to file via the Mazowiecki Wojewoda through a pelnomocnik later this year.

Sorry if this has already been discussed, couldn't find anything in search.

I emailed the Mazowieckie office asking for a number to track my application status and I got a response this morning saying that they didn't have it in the system:

W odpowiedzi na zapytanie uprzejmie informuję, że w systemie nie odnaleziono Pani wniosku

I submitted my application (myself) through the Consulate in New York last year in February. Around July (also last year) they called and asked for more money for postage, stating that it would be going out soon. In December, I received my Polish birth certificate in the mail. After seeing a post here about tracking their case, I contacted the office in search of a tracking number.

I know they're still working on the 2024 batch, does the lack of tracking number just mean that they haven't gotten to look at mine yet? Should I be concerned or just be patient?

Thanks!

I just had a quick question. I'm working on getting everything submitted to my provider and they're saying that my kids need to go through the full process as well. My kids, born under wedlock to me, are 2 and 6. Does my citizenship (if confirmed) pass on to them or would they need to go through the full wait as well? Just want to make sure I have them covered if possible.

FYI, I mailed certified NARA naturalization records to the U.S. State Dept. for apostille on June 16. Just received the apostille in the mail today.

I was warned/expecting it to take closer to 2 months, so this was a nice surprise.

I don't think I am eligible because these are deep cuts, but am hoping to confirm as admittedly some of the nuances are confusing to me, and I have a sliver of hope.

Great-Great-Grandparent: 

* Sex: M

* Date, place of birth: 1867, Posen, Prussia

* Date married: 1890

* Citizenship of spouse: Polish/Prussian

* Date divorced: N/A

* Occupation: Farmer

* Allegiance and dates of military service:

• Date, destination for emigration: 1883
• Date naturalized: no record of formal naturalization
• Date, place of death: 1952 New York, USA

Great-Great-Grandparent: 

* Sex: F

* Date, place of birth: 1868, Poznan, Poland

* Date married: 1890

* Citizenship of spouse: Polish/Prussian

* Date divorced: N/A

* Occupation: Housewife

• Date, destination for emigration: unknown
• Date naturalized: unknown
• Date, place of death: 1925, USA

Great-Grandparent: 

* Sex: M

* Date, place of birth: 1894, New York USA

* Date married: Dec 1920

* Citizenship of spouse: USA

* Date divorced: N/A

* Occupation: Farmer

* Allegiance and dates of military service: Registered in the draft with the US, 1917-1918.

* Date, place of death: 1943, New York USA

Grandparent: 

* Sex: M

* Date, place of birth: Feb 1934, USA

* Date married: 1956

* Citizenship of spouse: USA

* Date divorced: N/A

* Occupation: Draftsman

* Allegiance and dates of military service: Reserves but did not do active duty, USA

* Date, place of death: N/A - living

Parent: 

* Sex: F

* Date, place of birth: Feb 1965, USA

* Date married: Nov 1987

* Date divorced: N/A

* Occupation: Housewife

* Allegiance and dates of military service: None

Self: 

* Date, place of birth: 1992, USA

Hi everyone,

I’m trying to track down the Polish vital records for my great-grandfather, Szlome Zelman Bresztain (born Nov 5, 1886, in Łaskarzew). His parents were Yosef-Ezra (Azaria) and Miriam. He lived and got married in Parysów, with Rochele (Rachel) and had 4 children. One perished in the Holocaust.

His later timeline is well-documented:

1. Pre-1925: Last known residence in Poland was Warsaw.
2. 1925: Married Pesil in Jerusalem, Palestine.
3. 1930: Arrived in Buffalo, NY (via Canada).
4. 1938: Submitted Naturalization Petition in Pittsburgh, PA. But did not complete the process.

What has already been searched and come up empty:

1. AP Siedlce: Confirmed they do not hold the Jewish civil registry books for Łaskarzew, Parysów, or Garwolin. They also don't have the population registers (Księgi ludności) for Pszonka/Parysów.
2. Sobienie-Jeziory: Since Jewish records for Łaskarzew/Parysów were kept here, we searched the births (1886–1913) and marriages (1903–1907). Absolutely nothing for him or his parents.
3. AP Warszawa (Otwock Branch): Already searched their municipal records for Łaskarzew-wieś and Łaskarzew-Osada. Nothing.
4. Garwolin Land Registry (Hipoteka): Checked files for Dobra ziemskie Łaskarzew and Realność Parysów. No trace.
5. IPN (only has a file of his son), ZHI.
6. Lublin- found finally a tax list in Parysów a Zelek Or Zelig Bresztain which could be him because Zelek etc can be a yiddish form of Zalmen.

Since he was born in Łaskarzew in 1886 but isn't in the Sobienie-Jeziory books, and his last Polish residence was Warsaw, I am stuck.

1. Are there any alternate repositories, parish duplicates, or non-obvious regional archives where Jewish births from Łaskarzew in the mid-1880s might have been filed?
2. Has anyone successfully bypassed this exact geographic bottleneck using Warsaw-specific records (like Warsaw resident books/census records), even with the heavy destruction of Warsaw’s Jewish archives?
3. Is there any point in hiring a local researcher or they would just send emails to the archives which I can do myself.

Any advice or fresh angles would be massive.

Thanks!

Is NARA enough or uou gotta have a CNE certificate. I have a no records found letter from them that i apostiled in 2 weeks but I was reading that you gotta have CNE so I paid 280 USD. waiting for it now, I read it can take many months.

This is to follow up on my "eligibility check" post: https://www.reddit.com/r/prawokrwi/comments/1ur4z48/eligibility_check/

I'm trying to better understand what kinds of documentation people have successfully used in cases where their ancestor emigrated from Poland before 31 January 1920, particularly as a minor.

From my understanding, when the ancestor has left before the Polish state was established and was still a minor, whether they acquired Polish citizenship under the 1920 Act may depend on their parents' legal status, domicile, and other family circumstances.

My great-grandfather Joe was born in Warsaw in 1896 according to his birth record and Alien Registration Form (AR-2). A separate alien examination record indicates that he emigrated to Quebec aboard the SS Barcelona, arriving on 18 August 1913, while still a minor. He later entered the United States from Canada by train on 9 January 1919, according to his AR-2.

I believe his mother and siblings remained in Włodawa for several more years. His younger sister appears to have emigrated in April 1920, according to a U.S. border crossing record.

I also have reason to believe that his father died in Poland before anyone in the family emigrated. If that is correct, I'm wondering whether his mother's status would become especially important, or whether an older brother who may also have remained in Poland could be relevant.

For those who have had similar cases, I'm curious:

• What documents ultimately established your anchor ancestor's status?
• Were records relating to the parents required, such as birth, marriage, death, residence, population-registration, or military records?
• Did your case ultimately hinge on proving the parents' status or domicile rather than the minor's?
• Has anyone had to obtain population-registration records (księgi ludności stałej or meldunkowe) or other domicile records for the parents? If so, where did you find them?
• Did the death of a father before the family's emigration affect which parent's or family member's records became most important?

I'd be especially interested in hearing from anyone whose ancestor left before 1920 as a minor while their parents or siblings remained in Poland for several more years.

Grandparent: 

* Sex: M

* Date, place of birth: 1886, Bolekhiv, Stanyslaviv region, Austro-Hungary/Poland/Ukraine

* Date married: 1912

* Citizenship of spouse: Ukrainian

* Date divorced: N/A

* Occupation: Teacher

* Allegiance and dates of military service: No military service, was delegate of UNDO to the Sejm in 1935-38

• Date, destination for emigration:
• Date naturalized: N/A
• Date, place of death: ~1943, Komi Republic, Siberia

Grandparent: 

* Sex: M

* Date, place of birth: 1887, Kołodziejówka, Stanyslaviv region, Austro-Hungary/Poland/Ukraine

* Date married: 1916

* Citizenship of spouse: Ukrainian

* Date divorced: N/A

* Occupation: Engineer

* Allegiance and dates of military service: Austro-Hungarian Empire, 1915-1918

• Date, destination for emigration:
• Date naturalized: N/A
• Date, place of death: 1941, Kraków

Parent: 

* Sex: M

* Date, place of birth: 1914, Stryj, Galicia

* Date married: 1939, Kraków

* Date divorced: N/A

* Occupation: Physician

* Allegiance and dates of military service: Polish Army medical corps, 1938-39

• Date, destination for emigration: 1945, Austria then 1949, US
• Date naturalized: 1954
• Date, place of death: 1981, New York, USA

Parent: 

* Sex: F

* Date, place of birth: 1917, Lwow/L'viv, Galicia

* Date married: 1939, Kraków

* Date divorced: N/A

• Date, destination for emigration: 1945, Austria then 1949, US
• Date naturalized: 1954
• Date, place of death: 2012, New York, USA

You: 

* Date, place of birth: 1954, New York, USA

Given my age, this is probably more of an academic exercise, but will at least be useful for my children should they choose to apply. The sticking point may be my father, as I understand from other posts here that being a physician (medical doctor) is an issue. To clarify, he completed medical school in Lwow/L'viv in ~1938, when Galicia was under Polish control. He was conscripted into the Polish army as a doctor, was taken as a German POW after the 1939 invasion, but was released fairly shortly and remained in Krakow until the Germans re-took L'viv in 1941, when he moved back there. He worked in a public hospital there (Народна Клініка/Narodna Clinica) until 1945, when he was displaced to Austria. He worked there from 1945-1949, not clear in what facility, then emigrated to the US in 1949, where within two years he went to work for himself (private practice.) Does this block me/my children?

If it matters, everyone in this template considered themselves ethnically Ukrainian, and were UGC, but all (except me) were fluent in Polish.

For background: https://www.reddit.com/r/prawokrwi/comments/1uvniye/able_to_check_status/

Looks like the final decision was actually made (in 2025?) and when I sent my strongly worded follow up e-mail the confirmation came this morning. Literally. There's a few reasons why that could have been delayed, but those reasons are my fault.

Submitted April 2024, confirmed in July 2025 and got the physical confirmation... today.

Ask for you case number, and insist upon it.

Thanks for looking. I was thinking of going through the process, getting some quotes now. I thought this would be a fairly straight forward case originally (I had my maternal grandfather’s actual original Polish passport but he emigrated in 1920 and appears to have lost it through a combination of his fathers age and his own (albeit drafted) military service).

My father’s line however appears to be the better avenue given they were both war survivors. Before I go further with any company just wanted to see whether this seemed to be a straight forward case where with patience I can expect this to be a successful process for the 2-3k it will cost. Thanks!

(Left out GGP info because we don’t know it as of yet but I also don’t think it’s needed for the question but happy to be corrected)

Grandparent: 
* Sex: Female
* Date, place of birth: 5/5/21, Warsaw
* Date married: 11/14/45
* Citizenship of spouse: Polish
* Date divorced: n/a
* Occupation: Musician
* Allegiance and dates of military service:
(If applicable) N/A
Date, destination for emigration: 3/9/46, UN Displaced Persons Camp, Heidelberg Germany—> San Antonio, TX
Date naturalized: Unknown
Date, place of death: 1991, Philadelphia, PA

Grandparent: 
* Sex: Male
* Date, place of birth: 7/20/19
* Date married: 11/14/45
* Citizenship of spouse: Polish
* Date divorced: N/A
* Occupation: Unk currently
* Allegiance and dates of military service: Polish Army, captured, served duration of WWII in Russian POW
(If applicable)
Date, destination for emigration: 3/9/46, UN Displaced Persons Camp, Heidelberg Germany —> San Antonio TX
Date naturalized: Unk
Date, place of death: 1997, Philadelphia PA

Parent: 
* Sex: Male
* Date, place of birth: October 1953, Philadelphia, PA
* Date married: January 1977
* Date divorced:
You: 
* 1984, Queens, NY

How long does it typically take to get a case number these days? I'm a few weeks past what my provider quoted but was just curious if the case number assigning is as back logged as the rest of the stuff haha

Hey all,

Extremely happy to announce a success!

After 3 years of waiting since I started the process can confirm I got my email confirmation today from hexon poland, my case was straight forward, you can see via the tracker.

Genuinely shed a couple tears as I couldn't believe it, patience really pays off here.

I got my provider to raise a complaint a couple weeks ago which likely helped make a decision.

Any questions, I'm happy to answer!

Thanks for the help of this sub.

X

I am trying to determine whether Polish citizenship may have passed through this line.

The direct line is:

Great-grandfather -> grandfather -> father -> applicant

The four points I particularly want to confirm are:

1. The great-grandfather left the Russian partition of Poland in June 1907, before the Polish Citizenship Act of 1920.
2. He naturalised as a US citizen in December 1920.
3. His US-born son may have served in the US military during WWII, 1940-1945.
4. The next generation was born on 30 January 1951, shortly after the new Polish citizenship law took effect on 19 January 1951.

Additional earlier-generation information

The great-grandfather’s parents were Jewish residents of the Płońsk area. They married in Płońsk in 1874.

The great-grandmother’s parents were Jewish residents of the Płock area.

There are also Polish marriage records from 1911 and 1912 for women who appear to have been the great-grandfather’s sisters or close relatives. These records suggest that other members of the family remained in Poland after he emigrated in 1907. The exact relationships are still being confirmed from the original acts.

Great-grandparents

Date married: 1907, Płock, Russian Empire, now Poland. The civil marriage act names both parties and identifies the great-grandfather’s parents.

Date divorced: No known divorce.

GGM

Date and place of birth: Approximately 1879, probably in Płock or the surrounding area, Russian Empire. The exact date and place have not yet been confirmed.

Ethnicity and religion: Jewish.

Occupation: Unknown.

Allegiance and dates of military service: None known.

Date and destination of emigration: Arrived in Boston, Massachusetts, in June 1907, then continued to New York.

Date naturalised: Unknown. It is not yet clear whether she naturalised independently, acquired US citizenship through her husband, or remained an alien for some period.

Date and place of death: April 1959, New York City, USA.

GGF

Date and place of birth: Born in, or closely associated with, Płońsk, Russian Empire, now Poland. The available records contain conflicting birth dates, ranging from approximately 1878 to 1884. His exact birth record has not yet been conclusively identified.

Ethnicity and religion: Jewish.

Occupation: Unknown or not yet confirmed.

Allegiance and dates of military service: No confirmed military service. A Płońsk record dated October 1900 may concern his conscription or military-registration status, but the original file has not yet been obtained.

Date and destination of emigration: Arrived in Boston, Massachusetts, on 25 June 1907. His last residence appears to have been Płońsk. He subsequently lived in New York.

Date naturalised: 16 December 1920, New York, USA.

Date and place of death: March 1967, Brooklyn, New York, USA.

Additional Polish evidence relating to the GGF

• His parents married in Płońsk in 1874.
• A Russian Empire passport or passport booklet survives and appears to associate him with Płońsk.
• A 1907 electoral-list entry from Płońsk appears to identify him shortly before his emigration.
• A Płońsk record from October 1900 may relate to his military registration or conscription status.
• Apparent sisters or close female relatives married in Płońsk in 1911 and 1912, after his departure for the USA.

My main question regarding this generation is whether a person who was domiciled or permanently registered in Płońsk, but who emigrated in June 1907, would have acquired Polish citizenship when the 1920 law took effect.

If he did acquire Polish citizenship, would his US naturalisation on 16 December 1920 have caused him to lose it, or could the military-service restriction on loss have protected him because of his age and possible continuing Polish military liability?

Grandparent

Sex: Male.

Date and place of birth: October 1915, New York City, USA.

Date married: Unknown or not yet confirmed.

Citizenship of spouse: US citizen.

Date divorced: No known divorce.

Occupation: Unknown or not yet confirmed.

Allegiance and dates of military service: He may have served in the US armed forces during WWII, approximately 1940–1945. I am still trying to establish the branch, exact dates, and nature of any service.

Date and destination of emigration: Not applicable; born in the USA.

Date naturalised: Not applicable; US citizen from birth.

Date and place of death: February 2007, Maryland, USA.

My question regarding this generation is whether service in the US military during WWII would have caused loss of Polish citizenship.

Parent

Sex: Male.

Date and place of birth: 30 January 1951, USA.

Date married: Unknown or not included here.

Date divorced: Not applicable or not relevant to the citizenship line.

This birth occurred eleven days after the Polish Citizenship Act of 1951 took effect on 19 January 1951.

Applicant

Date and place of birth: October 1980, USA.

Questions

1. Would the great-grandfather have acquired Polish citizenship in 1920 despite having left for the USA in June 1907?
2. If so, would his US naturalisation on 16 December 1920 have caused loss of Polish citizenship?
3. Could the military-service provisions have prevented that loss, and what Polish records would be needed to establish military liability?
4. If the grandfather served in the US military during WWII, 1940-1945, would that have caused him to lose Polish citizenship?

I have been quoted £500 for a polish citizenship application by descent by Hexon (www.hexonpoland.com). This seems like a great price. I am curious whether anyone has used them and what the outcome was.

Hello,

I have a case of a German woman born 1942 in Poznan. This woman then had a son and gave the son up for adoption.

I need help understanding Polish laws as far as adoptions and access to records are concerned. The son needs access to the original German birth record of his biological mother, which should have a lot of info on his biological grandparents including dates and places of birth. He currently does not know this info, but needs it for the German certificate of citizenship process.

Any chance the Polish authorities will allow this? I know that the Polish authorities are a bit weird about access to the German originals.

Does he need a court order releasing the originals to him? Can he get a court order?

Any insights?

Hello again community - here's a July progress tracker update (current as of July 13). We haven't had too much movement over the past month on progressing open cases, though our numbers keep growing: up to 71 tracked cases (15 successful, 56 open), over 57 total as of last month. We've had anecdotal reports that Mazowieckie is finally into October 2024 applications. Of our September cases (7 total), 4 have succeeded and 3 remain in processing. Hopefully the rest of those will finish soon.

Adding below those next up in view (happy to join the queue myself!). As always, we appreciate any updates anyone has heard from the authorities or their providers on where cases and timelines stand. We welcome new submissions in our progress tracker thread.

Hey all,

Hoping to get some help. I submitted around January of 2024 and to date I've only been told verbally that I was considered a Polish citizen but the documents sent were returned to the main office.

I attempted to contact the office via the email form someone linked but got no response. I understand that they're understaffed but is there any other way to verify status of a case?

My lawyer said there is not and she goes regularly in person for filings and updates.

Others who I know that filed in mid 2023 have had their passports already.

Not having anything other than a "no they totally got you" from my lawyer isn't reassuring.

Hi everyone,

I've posted here a few times before and have really appreciated all of the insight, suggestions, and help I've received. I'm hoping someone here has been through a situation similar to mine with a pre-1920 Austrian Partition ancestor.

After consulting with several service providers, only one has agreed to work with me. However, they've identified two major concerns:

• My great-great-grandfather's (GGGF) birth/baptism record appears to have been lost or destroyed.
• The archival evidence I've collected may not be sufficient to prove the domicile of his father.

At this point I'm starting to wonder whether I'm chasing something that's simply impossible, or whether others have had a successful case despite missing an ancestor's birth record.

For additional context, I've provided the records I've collected along with my previous eligibility post:
https://www.reddit.com/r/prawokrwi/comments/1p26lgn/eligibility_check/

Austrian-era records

• Three birth/baptism records for my GGGF's siblings
• Birth/baptism record for my GGGF's mother
• Marriage records for my GGGF's parents and grandparents
• Cadastral maps showing what appears to be continuous ownership/residence of the same family parcel from 1825–1877

Polish-era records

• 1932 probate/inheritance records showing my GGGF inherited his parents' land (GGGF's father passed away around 1899 but is still named in these records)

U.S. records

• 1912 immigration record listing Obertyn as his last residence
• 1921 Michigan marriage record (father's name is unfortunately cut off)
• 1930 U.S. naturalization record listing Poland as his birthplace
• 1937 SS-5 application accurately listing both parents, Poland as birthplace, and his date of birth
• 1941 repatriation paperwork filed by his wife listing Obertyn as his birthplace
• 1942 WWII draft registration listing Obertyn as his birthplace
• 1949 death certificate naming the same parents (no date of birth and only "Poland" listed as birthplace)

Ukrainian archive records

• Official "absence of record" letters from both DAIFO and TsDIAL confirming that my GGGF's birth record could not be located

A couple of notes:

• The U.S. records contain minor variations in my GGGF's parents' first names, but the surname is consistently correct.
• My GGGF also seems to have been unsure of his exact birth date. Various records list September or November 1894, although family records point toward September.

Has anyone had a successful pre-1920 case with similar circumstances? Specifically:

• An ancestor's birth record no longer existed,
• The archives officially confirmed the record was missing,
• Yet the remaining documentary evidence was still enough to establish the claim.

I'd love to hear about your experience, what evidence ultimately made the difference, or whether there are any records I may have overlooked. Thank you!

So, I have been working on my application for Karta Polaka for the past nine months or so. The knowledge and experience shared in this community have been a big help in that whole process. By now the necessary documentation is (hopefully) basically all there, but I will need a little more time before feeling adequately prepared for the interview, in terms of both content and language.

I’ve been assuming all along I would do the interview here in Japan, where I have temporary residence. Only it’s looking less certain now that I will be able to extend my residence permit when that comes up later this year. Though it’s definitely not impossible that I could be more or less ready for the interview before that deadline, I am also wondering now if applying for permanent residence based on Polish origin (i.e., directly in Poland itself) might be a more realistic path.

Trouble is, there doesn't seem to be much nearly as much information out there concerning this procedure as for Karta Polaka. The source I’ve seen cited most often is this one (English version here). While the information on that page is certainly very useful, it still leaves some of my questions unanswered, and even raises a few additional ones. So I’d like to put those questions here, in hopes of hearing from people who have either been through this procedure, or are otherwise familiar with it and/or the applicable regulations.

First, it’s clear that an application in this procedure has to be submitted in person. But it’s not so clear to me whether there are any limitations on that person’s status in Poland at the time of submission. For example, would it be possible to enter Poland as a visitor (tourist, language course enrollee, etc.) and submit a permanent residence application immediately? Or would it first be necessary to apply for (and actually get) a temporary residence permit? Since the application is supposed to include evidence of your intention to settle in Poland, I’m guessing that prior temporary residence status wouldn’t be required. But I would really rather not guess about these things...

Next, would the same kinds of documentation proving Polish ancestry that are typically submitted when applying for Karta Polaka also be acceptable in this procedure? The web page I linked to above doesn’t really go into specifics about such documents, but it does say this:

Podczas osobistego stawiennictwa uzupełnij ORYGINAŁY dokumentów potwierdzających polską narodowość Twoich przodków - badamy ich autentyczność. Nie wystarczy okazanie dokumentów w urzędzie i pozostawienie potwierdzonych z oryginałem kopii.

This kind of puzzles me, since in most cases such documents can only be found in the archives of either RP or some other country. And so (obviously) the applicant can only obtain certified copies of those documents, not the originals. The English version isn’t any clearer on this point, but it does link to a glossary definition of "original", and once you’re there you can switch to the Polish definition:

Oryginał/uwierzytelniona kopia
Dokument, który nie jest kopią. Czasami przepisy umożliwiają złożenie kopii dokumentu, zamiast oryginału, ale wówczas kopia powinna być uwierzytelniona (potwierdzona za zgodność z oryginałem). Uwierzytelnienia kopii dokumentu może dokonać pracownik urzędu, który przyjmuje dokument, wówczas odpowiednio to oznacza pieczęcią i podpisem. Uwierzytelnienia może również dokonać np. notariusz, a także radca prawny/adwokat jeżeli jest Twoim pełnomocnikiem.

So this does make it sound like certified copies of original archival documents (and presumably also official translations of those documents) would be acceptable in this procedure. But here, too, it would be good to know for sure.

Finally, there’s almost no indication on that web page about what happens after the application has been submitted, except for having to come in at some point for an interview (przyjście na rozmowę do urzędu). So I wonder if anyone here who’s been through this procedure (or knows someone who has, or knows how it usually goes, etc.) could provide a little more detailed information. Specifically, about how long after submitting the application does this interview happen? Does it require about the same level of Polish cultural/historical knowledge and language proficiency as the Karta Polaka interview? And about how long should it take after that to get a final decision on the application?

Much obliged for any helpful information or advice!

Hey hey to my mod dudes

I’m trying to help someone and then saw this. What’s happening with the template?

Thanks 😭🙏💪

I think I have a possible pre-1920s claim to Polish citizenship by descent through my GGF. GGF was born in Stobierna, Galicia in 1886, emigrated to the United States in 1910, and appears not to have naturalized as a U.S. citizen until 1944. At that time his daughter, my GM, was 18 and married. The proposed citizenship chain is GGF → GM → Father → Me.

Eligibility request template

Great-Grandparents:

Date married: March 2, 1924 (New York, New York)

Date divorced: NA

GGM

Date, place of birth: Exact date unknown. Galicia.

Ethnicity and religion: Not confirmed, likely Ukrainian Catholic

Occupation: None

Allegiance and dates of military service: NA

Date, destination for emigration: Unknown, but we think prior to 1920, and she was living in New York by 1924.

Date naturalized: NA

Date, place of death: August 18, 1954, North Carolina, USA.

GGF

Date, place of birth: June 3, 1886, Stobierna, Galicia, now southeastern Poland near Rzeszów.

Ethnicity and religion: Polish Catholic

Occupation: Farmer

Allegiance and dates of military service: No military service found. Did file a 1917 USA WWI draft registration card.

Date, destination for emigration: Arrived in New York on October 24, 1910

Date naturalized: Filed Declaration of Intention in 1926; filed another Declaration of Intention in 1941; filed Petition for Naturalization and signed oath of allegiance in 1944.

Date, place of death: December 19, 1955, North Carolina, USA.

Grandparent: GM

Sex: Female

Date, place of birth: July 11, 1925, New York, New York

Date married: October 3, 1943

Citizenship of spouse: U.S. natural-born Citizen (of Polish descent but likely not eligible to have been a citizen)

Date divorced: NA

Occupation: None

Allegiance and dates of military service: None

Date, place of death: July 2, 2007, North Carolina, USA

Parent: Father

Sex: Male

Date, place of birth: November 14, 1959, North Carolina, USA.

Date married: July 2, 1994

Date divorced: NA

You:

Date, place of birth: November 23, 1997, North Carolina, USA.

Main questions for the community:

1. Despite coming to America in 1910 and never returning to Poland, did my GGF acquire Polish citizenship in 1920?  What is generally needed to prove he was “entitled to homely surrounding in one of communes on the territory of The Polish State” as outlined in the 1920 Citizenship Act?
2. Is GGF’s 1944 U.S. naturalization late enough that it did not prevent GM from acquiring or retaining Polish citizenship? GM was 18 and married at the time of his naturalization.
3. Did GM’s 1943 marriage to a U.S. citizen affect her Polish citizenship, given that she was already a U.S. citizen by birth? It is my understanding that that Polish citizenship is only lost in marriage if she acquired foreign citizenship, but she was already a natural-born US citizen.
4. Did my GM transmit Polish citizenship to my Father at his birth in 1959 under the 1951 Polish Citizenship Act, even though he was born to an American father. Similarly does that then pass to me, with only my father as a presumed Polish citizen at my birth in 1997?