r/mildlyinfuriating • u/HedgehogMinimum9299 • 19h ago
My HOA could beat up your HOA NYU admitted my roommate started the fight and that I acted in self-defense — then still found me responsible
I appealed an NYU conduct finding after a physical altercation with my roommate.
NYU corrected the factual record, reduced the sanction to a written warning, and now explicitly acknowledges that:
- my roommate initiated the physical confrontation;
- my actions occurred in the context of defending myself;
- the original factual record needed correction.
And somehow they still found me responsible because my use of physical force “contributed to an incident that endangered the safety of those involved.”
That is unbelievably infuriating.
They do not say I started it.
They do not say my response was excessive.
They do not say I continued after the threat ended.
They do not identify any specific action that was unnecessary or disproportionate.
Their reasoning is basically:
“He attacked you.”
“You defended yourself.”
“But because defending yourself involved physical force, you are still responsible.”
What exactly was I supposed to do—politely submit to being attacked so the incident would remain compliant with university policy?
I’m glad they corrected the record and reduced the sanction, but this still feels like institutional ass-covering. They moved almost entirely toward admitting the original decision was wrong while refusing to take the final step of clearing me.
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u/tallperson117 18h ago
Years ago during college, my housemates were riding with a random friend, when the friend was pulled over and cops found weed in the car. My housemates didn't know there was even weed in the car and the driver admitted it was his, but the cops gave all of them citations for possession, and based on that, the school put them all on disciplinary probation. Housemates hired a lawyer, got the criminal charges dismissed, but the school still refused to remove the disciplinary probation. The driver admitted to the disciplinary board that the weed was his and my housemates had no idea the weed was in the vehicle, but they claimed "the school relies on its own investigation," which they literally never did, and kept the disciplinary probation in place. It was all incredibly stupid.
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u/tinsellately 17h ago
The arbitrary nature of it is so infuriating. While this was much less serious, I initially signed up for way, way too many credit hours when I first went to college at 17. I was homeschooled and didn't have anyone to help me understand the process, and the advisers pretty much just rubber stamped whatever. I wanted to start as a half time student to get used to the classroom environment, and so since a work week was 40 hours, I signed up for 19 hours of classes in summer thinking that would be a light load. I also didn't realize summer classes are already accelerated compared to regular semesters, making it even worse.
Obviously, it was very overwhelming, and I ended up withdrawing from 2/3rds of my classes, which caused the loss of my scholarship and financial aid, and then I owed a bunch of money for the summer classes. I completed the summer classes I had left, but then had to drop out of college before Fall so I could get a job to pay everything back. After that I wasn't able to afford to go back until I was 29, and then even though it was another university and 12 years later, I was immediately put on academic probation, which I stayed on for the entire time I was getting my B.A., even though I had a 4.0 and graduated with honors. I was never allowed to drop any classes or be treated like a normal student, and had to keep checking in for reviews of my academic behavior. It haunted me through the entire experience. No meetings or attempts to prove what happened made any difference, they understood that I was just a kid who didn't understand how credit hours worked and that I wasn't a bad student, but it didn't matter. Cost me around $30k total, a 12 year delay in education, and then I had to deal with all the shame from having that on my records.
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u/mountinlodge 16h ago
Holy fuck, that’s terrible. I’m shocked they had no flags in their system to catch the mistake you were making signing up for so many classes as a new college student
I developed major anxiety issues during my graduate studies, but the faculty and staff supported me through the whole process. The brief moments when academic probation was triggered were quickly resolved and I went straight back to good academic standing. I shudder to think what might’ve happened if that wasn’t the case
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u/Thebingobird 14h ago
At my university, 12 hours was considered full time and anything over 16 had to be signed off on with a specific form by your advisor. You weren’t allowed more than three summer classes at a time at all. Bananas that there wasn’t some automated system to catch it.
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u/Tasty_Orange_1714 9h ago
The university I went to, and later taught at, required professor approval, for any class that puts their student over 12 hours for fall and spring, and 6 hours over the summer. It was a public school.
Meanwhile, the private university I went to for one of my grad degrees let me sign up for two hybrid classes that happened to have the same on campus time, and I wasn't made aware till 1/4 of the semester was completed. (On campus time was TBD at sign up for one of them. We didn't get the on campus times till later. Yes, it was extremely stupid on their part.) Luckily, I never was charged for the class they forced me to drop, and they refunded the money to the company I worked for that was paying for it.
I wonder if OP went to a university that was as lacking as the one I went to. Nice folks, but I shure don't miss it.
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u/INFINITE_TRACERS 16h ago
That’s fucked. My uni limited the amount of courses one can enroll in and the limit can only be exceeded by written permission from the admin department
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u/coolandnormalperson 16h ago
And on top of all that, at bare minimum one of their advisors should've pushed back on this. They knew it made no sense but they didn't care enough to ask/counsel, just wanted OP out of their office so they could get to the next appt and go home. Pure apathy from everyone at every step
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u/ScrotalSmorgasbord 12h ago
I still haven't been back to school because of something similar. Had health problems while working a full time job so I dropped some classes. First time wasn't that big of a deal. Second time was a couple years later, restaurant I worked at closed down and the only job I could get fast enough to not starve required a schedule change so I dropped a couple more classes. I lost my financial aid and still haven't been financially stable enough to go back on my own dime, especially considering I became a father since then. It's been 15 years and I don't think I'll ever be able to go back.
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u/australiankhant 13h ago
Yeah I was hanging out in somebody else's dorm room Freshman year, a floor below mine.
RA and a security guard knock on the door with a hunch and say they are searching the room. They find a tiny pipe and a roach.
I got written up for "being in proximity to contraband" even though it wasn't mine, I didn't know it was there.. they didn't care.
Another strike and I would've been on probation and being at risk of being kicked out of the dorms.
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u/enadiz_reccos 14h ago
Colleges really take advantage of the fact that most of their "customers" are children
As a student, I would never really question when a teacher would be like "if you're gonna show up late, don't show up at all"
As an adult, fuck that. I'm paying for you to teach me. I'll walk through the doors with 5 minutes left in class, watch me.
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u/SomeTheyCallMePig5O 18h ago
This is exactly why zero tolerance is so stupid.
When I was in high school we had a “zero tolerance” policy against physical violence. That meant that the bullies and victims got the same amount of time suspended after a physical altercation.
One of my close friends told another student that he was an asshole for hitting me in the head in the school lunch line. Bully didn’t like that, so he got a group of friends to jump the other guy after school. They pulled his shirt over his head, beat him to the ground, and kept kicking him when he was down. He was in the hospital for 3 days after that beating.
The school gave them ALL the same amount of suspension. The kid who got beat to living hell got the same punishment as the guys who beat him, just because he threw a single punch during the “fight.”
Zero tolerance policy is stupid. It’s just another way for the school board to get victims to stay silent, so they don’t have to deal with all the paperwork that come from dealing with a school bully from the start.
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u/LocalH 18h ago
He'd have gotten the same punishment if he'd played dead and not even threw the single punch. He "technically" "participated in a fight".
Zero tolerance needs to be illegal in 99% of scenarios. I only support zero tolerance for things like cops and politicians who violate the law.
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u/SomeTheyCallMePig5O 18h ago
I absolutely agree with you. Not a single other person in the scenario I mentioned had a mark on them. It’s seems cruel that they gave the hospitalized party the same punishment as the group who attacked him.
The reasoning was that they don’t want victims acting out against their bullies in a violent way, they want them to talk it out. That doesn’t work at all when one group is prone to violence with no communication.
At the very least, the principle at the time was forced out due to this stance. The principle that replaced him was much more lenient with victims, and another attack like the one I mentioned did not ever happen again. Bullies were treated accordingly and victims were supported instead of punished. It’s sad that my friend had to go to hospital to change this policy, but I’m glad it changed non the less.
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u/LikelyAMartian 16h ago
What's dumber is that punishing both parties the same just leads to more violence.
If you start beating me up and now we both are going to get suspended, I am 100% going to make damn sure my suspension or expelling was worth it.
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u/Lewa358 15h ago
As with many of society's flaws, zero tolerance policies are just a symptom of a larger problem, which is that schools don't have anywhere near the amount of resources necessary to distinguish perpetrators from victims in all cases.
As it stands now, zero tolerance happens because schools have no other choice. Either both get punished or no one gets punished, because they simply are not able to take the time and energy to do a whole tribunal to figure out who instigated the fight and whether the level of force applied was necessary for self-defence or whatever.
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u/Machinegun_Pete 12h ago
Got the no punches thrown zero tolerance punishment in 5th grade, had a write what I learned, wrote that next time someone swings at me I'd try to hurt them as much as possible. Received no comment back.
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u/SovietSunrise 14h ago
Someone should beat up a principal and ask them during the beatdown "How do you like that zero-tolerance policy, asshole?"
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u/nothisistheotherguy 13h ago
Fuck the school that situation needed police involvement
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u/Spiritual-Fall5494 19h ago
Does the warning affect you at all in terms of your education or life at NYU?
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u/akdanman11 19h ago
If something else happens then it absolutely could. The point is to have a record so they can take administrative action against repeat offenders
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u/tough_titanium_tits 18h ago
"it says here that you've been assaulted several times, I'm afraid we have to expell you"
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u/False-Entertainment3 17h ago
Suffering from “too punchable of a face” syndrome, we’re gonna have to ask you to leave the university as it’s too disruptive for our students and faculty.
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u/sdwoodchuck 15h ago
“In fact, if you’re not out of my office in the next thirty seconds, I may not be responsible for my actions.”
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u/akdanman11 18h ago
They got a written warning which most likely only says “fighting” without specifying the defensive nature
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u/Orange-Toed-Lemur 17h ago
Qs someone who worked with our administration in a student aid capacity, no, the record will not just say "fighting" and will have this email/letter qttached to documentation as well
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u/Odd-Artist-2595 11h ago
Yep. If nothing else I would ask to see that warning and *insist* that it include the words “in self defense”. Not just buried somewhere in the body of the warning, but in the title and whatever phrases they use to categorize warnings in their computer systems. No “It’s only listed like that because “fighting” is our only choice in the drop down menu.” If that’s the case, call IT and tell them to add another category. Given their explanation of the warning, OP is certainly not the only person to have been caught in this insane Catch-22 before, nor are they likely to be the last. Even if they can’t (or won’t) correct any past occurrences, they can do it now and in the future.
This is giving me flashbacks to the early days of “zero tolerance for weapons” in school when little first-graders were getting suspended because their moms used plastic sword-shaped toothpicks to hold their lunch sandwich together. It is unfortunate that a university is unwilling to apply any rules of common sense to their policy interpretations. Their stock in trade is teaching people to *think*. Perhaps, they should try it, themselves.
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u/smthomaspatel 16h ago
Even if it didn't, this letter exists. They can't really refute it should another incident occur.
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u/Orange-Toed-Lemur 16h ago
Yes, i know. Which is why they would keep the records, so they know whats out there in case any legal troubles arise
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u/smthomaspatel 16h ago
Absolutely. One should never count on the other side of a dispute to hold the records.
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u/MalcolmLinair 13h ago
People have legitimately been expelled from schools at all levels for that across the US. "Zero Tolerance" is just an excuse to punish the victim rather than address the actual problems.
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u/No_Ingenuity4000 16h ago
"If you run into one asshole, they are probably the asshole. If you keep running into assholes all day, you are likely the asshole." Some folks are very good, both consciously and unconsciously, at drawing heat.
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u/Throwaway-4230984 15h ago
Also having accidental “witnesses” saying victim attacked first is a common bullying tactic
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u/Substantial_Ad_3386 14h ago
try telling that to kids who are bullied at school. ignorance must be bliss
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u/bemused_alligators 16h ago
there a point where the question of "why are you getting assaulted disproportionately frequently?" becomes relevant. Some people thrive off of being infuriating while just barely following the rules until the other person does violate the rules getting revenge.
While I'm not saying OP was engaged in this behavior, if someone gets into a lot of fights they didn't start the question of "what are you doing to make people dislike you this much" becomes very relevant, because action will need to be taken to resolve it.
And I note that this is true even if the thing they're doing is something like "being gay", or "being black" or "being trans" (the university needs to pay more attention to anti-discrimination), just like it's true for "you're verbally manipulative" (the university needs to step in to punish you for that), and "you're just a bad roommate" (honestly not sure how they would fix this one).
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u/mcjefferic 13h ago
Why are immediately jumping to this when you have zero evidence that this is the case? Do you have some kind of anger issues and blame others for "making you attack them"?
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u/celadonkey 16h ago
This would be funny if there weren't real world examples of women being expelled or evicted because they've been victims of abuse.
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u/kickit08 16h ago
Not victim blaming but let’s be real, we all know some people do literally ask to get in a fight one way or another. If this is your 6th “defensive” fight then there by virtue purely of statistics may be somthing going on beyond they got unlucky and got in a random fight.
There’s also tons of stuff that’s BS for though, so there are definitely large grey areas. Not writing down that somebody got in a fight for future reference even if it’s not disciplinary in anyway can be useful.
If somebody’s first fight was to be found as defensive and then they have 3 fights afterwards that were not ruled to be as such, the validity of the first may be called into question.
Assuming it truly is for record keeping and it’s not somthing anybody can just look up, I don’t see an issue with it.
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u/BranchLogical5491 18h ago
Yes. Just in case OP is a future aggressor - someone can’t say the university just LETS people fight with no consequences.
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u/akdanman11 18h ago
Except in this case OP is very blatantly not the aggressor and is receiving a sanction as if they are
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u/Muted-Woodpecker-469 18h ago
I’d say the written warning is still on file, So there’s a record. If something similiar happens in any capacity and this person maybe stops a burglary or other act with force, two written warnings may be cause for a probationary meeting/decision
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u/Leather__sissy 16h ago
That would be the dick move usage of that information, but maybe he regularly is “defending” himself. Also I’m guessing if there are any real world consequences of the warning that a lawyer could get it removed
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u/Crafty_Jello_3662 19h ago
If they get attacked again then they'll have a pattern of violent behaviour
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u/chris14020 18h ago
So now anyone that knows about this knows violence will absolutely be tolerated against this individual, at least if they want to keep their education. I don't see any way malicious/sociopathic people could use this to their advantage.
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u/Romulan-Jedi 16h ago
I dunno. Were I a potential attacker, I'd definitely consider the possibility that OP believes he'd be screwed already, so he might as well make absolutely sure there isn't a third attack.
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u/Beneficial_Jacket544 16h ago edited 15h ago
If (s)he is to ever apply to a graduate/professional program, there is a question on the application that asks something along the lines of "have you ever been a recipient of any institutional action by any college/university for a conduct violation or unacceptable academic performance? If yes, explain" (sometimes they even ask for a letter from your university to authenticate the circumstances).
I can speak only for medical school, but prospective applicants who answer "yes" to that question are flagged. The worst types of offenses are those that contain elements of lying, stealing, or academic cheating. The situation here can be forgiven by some medical schools, but it is nevertheless a net-negative on an application. The competitive environment is such that even a blemish like this will frequently render the application dead-on-arrival. In fact, many medical schools simply will not interview anyone who answers yes to that question, regardless of the circumstance, because there are so many applicants and it's an easy way to weed out candidates.
You can lie and answer "no," but several schools require a written/certified letter from your university that confirms that you have never had any disciplinary issues. Getting caught in a lie like that can tank your ability to ever apply to medical schools in the future, as medical schools use a unified application system.
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u/sqigglygibberish 14h ago
Depending on the school (I went through this at a similar one with two different “top secret probations” for basically non issue stuff) you can also petition that if there aren’t any other issues the warning is rescinded before graduation, or after one school year, etc.
A logical administrator would hopefully be amenable to that, at the least it’s worth asking about.
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u/DarthKnah 10h ago
Obviously OP should confirm with an administrator, but I’d bet that “written warning” is below the threshold for NYU to report if asked by a law/med school. I know at my university only probation and higher were saved in the post-graduation record that was reportable to grad schools, and from what I have read it seems like most colleges operate that way (since they don’t want to sabotage their graduates, and also because if they report minute violations they need better evidentiary and procedural standards)
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u/Boom-Doc-a-Locka 15h ago
Unless OP has a pattern of physical altercations, this won't mean much.
An important piece of this that's being glossed over by OP (and missed by many it seems) is that NYU had originally imposed more severe sanctions, and after review reduced those sanctions to a written warning. I understand that a warning for defending yourself seems a little silly, but this is pretty common practice in higher education as it allows for a paper trail to look back on if there are future incidents. More often than note warnings just collect dust and aren't ever looked at again.
Not to accuse OP of anything by any means, but an example that lends some context is a situation a couple of years ago where we had a "serial self-defender" in our undergraduate population on campus, It was a girl that had some social issues who would continually bait others into a physical confrontation, and then claim self-defense. Her initial situation looked like a very clear case of defending herself, but after the second and third incidents we realized that we needed to ask different questions and look at the situation a little more broadly. Ultimately we were able to get her the help she needed and she graduated, but it was a learning experience for some of my younger staff about asking the right questions and keeping good notes.
Source: I deal with/have dealt with this sort of stuff for the last 25 years or so.
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u/ADHDK 18h ago
Schools have been punishing the victim alongside the bully since I was in kindergarten, i don’t expect adult schools to do any differently unless you lawyer up.
I presume they’ve lowered your punishment enough that it’s also now not worth lawyering up? Which would be by design.
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u/hamellr 18h ago
As the victim, the bully never got punished at my school. But who got detention for fighting back?
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u/Imperial_Barron 11h ago
Me. I did. Actually I didnt even fight back. Curled up in fetal whilst I got kicked repeatedly by 3 boys but cause one had adhd i needed to be better and not provoke him... sat on phone watching pen pineapple apple pen provoked him HUH
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u/PopBulky7023 10h ago
I got a week in school suspension for giving a guy who tripped me a sharp turn around and a dirty look.
I got cited by the school cop after being surrounded by a group of girls pushing me around and kicking one of them in the leg.
Schools are fucking rapist mentality towards bullying victims.
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u/ronirocket 16h ago edited 16h ago
My brother was informed the correct action when someone starts hitting you is to curl up in a ball and say *donthurtmedonthurtmedonthurtme*
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u/-missingclover- 14h ago
That could still be traumatic for your attacker. The optimal behavior is to start punching yourself while saying "thank you" in a clear (but not loud as to alarm) voice.
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u/PopBulky7023 10h ago
Shit in my experience the usually ONLY punish the victim. If they punish both you're lucky.
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u/Jor94 18h ago
School in a nutshell. Get bullied or physically attacked, fight back in any way and you’re now equally responsible
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u/TwoDudesOnACamel 18h ago
Way back when I was in school, a kid jumped out from behind a door and punched me in the face. I pulled the ol' Karate Kid wax on wax off bit and blocked his next two punches, then he ran off. The school said I hit him in the arm so I'm suspended too. Fuck schools and everyone in them. I still get mad thinking about it.
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u/Jor94 18h ago
Same, I still think about this kid that used to bully me all the time, one day i got fed up and chased him, he went straight to a teacher and i got put in detention, wasn't allowed to go outside during breaks and they made me stand up in assembly and apologise
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u/23-1-20-3-8-5-18 18h ago
That kid was a loser and probably still is so there is at least that.
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u/TwoDudesOnACamel 18h ago
He actually apologized for it a couple years later when I ran into him outside of school. I got no beef with him anymore. The school never did though.
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u/tenphes31 17h ago
When I was in the 6th grade a couple of bullies took a workbook of mine while we were in class and started a monkey-in-the-middle with me. At one point, one of the kids tripped onto a chair and I lightly pressed against his back with an open hand. The trip caused him to drop the book, but for some reason I concluded it was my touch. So when they did it again, I tried touching his back again, which of course did nothing.
Finally, the teacher (who I did like, who liked me, and I continued to have her as a teacher throughout middle school) sent us to the assistant principals office. Idk what the other two kids got, but I was written up for "simple assault". My parents went to the school the next day and convinced him to take the refferal off and drop my detention to a lunch detention, but I still hate that asshole to this day.
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u/NightBawk 18h ago
Yeah, I remember being made to apologize to my bully for the great crime of saying something snarky back. 🙄 Never took school admin or teachers seriously after that.
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u/MalignantLugnut 18h ago
Because punishing only the aggressor would single him out and make him look/feel bad.
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u/Confident-Mix1243 17h ago
As an adult it's a lot easier to e.g. make a police report if what occurred was a crime.
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u/Niceotropic 19h ago
If you can afford it, get a lawyer and push hard.
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u/floowerstem 19h ago
Why do schools only listen to legal threats?
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u/Spiritual-Fall5494 18h ago
They only care about themselves and it can't hurt them unless its a legal issue
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u/deanrihpee 18h ago
ah selfishness, very human of us, no matter the scale (individual or the whole big entity)
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u/Outside-Pear9429 18h ago
They figure students can’t afford or don’t know how to fight back so they treat students however they want, even when they know they’re wrong. They only start listening and taking things seriously when someone official enters the chat
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u/EasyMode556 18h ago
The path of least resistance is to tell the student “tough shit” and move on.
Once a lawyer gets involved, the path of least resistance is to actually deal with the situation like they originally should have done, rather than face a lawsuit if they don’t
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u/LordSesshomaru82 18h ago
Because lawsuits cost money. A single student is easily replaceable, their reputation and the fat piles of cash that'll be burned during a lawsuit, however, will hurt the organization.
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u/anita-artaud 18h ago
I would recommend seeking out the University Ombudsman as they help with disputes like this.
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u/damutecebu 18h ago
LOL. What exactly is a lawyer going to do? Threaten to sue the school over its conduct policies...which OP agreed to by signing a housing agreement? Such silliness.
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u/Adequate_Cheesecake7 18h ago
Sorry this happened to you.
I understand that the world is very different now, but in high school a guy punched me in the face three times and ran away when I got up. He attacked me from the side door got the drop on me. We were called into the vice principal’s office and they vice principal was going to suspend us both for fighting. I said, “he punched me and ran away before I could respond that isn’t a fight. If you are going to suspend me for fighting when I didn’t hit anyone, I will beat his ass right here and now. If you’re going to suspend me for fighting, there will be a fight.” The vice principal decided that maybe we should only get detention instead, but I still thought that it was bullshit that we got the same punishment.
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u/two2teps 18h ago
They want to make sure they have documentation you were in an altercation with another student and that they "took action" afterwards to ensure future safety of others on campus.
It's not about you specifically, it's about covering their own ass in the event of something happening in the future involving you again where it's not as clear cut.
You can get a lawyer and fight it, make a stink about it to the media, or ignore it and get on with your college career. It's all on your and what your current appetite is.
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u/aguyinag 17h ago
/r/mildlyinfuriating be like
That is unbelievably infuriating.
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u/Sandman1990 17h ago
Half the shit on here is unbelievably infuriating and the other half barely registers as mildly infuriating.
It's like 1 in a thousand that actually qualifies as mildly infuriating lmao
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u/Ok_Sleep8579 18h ago
This line seems to be carrying a lot of the weight beyond just the physical alternation itself:
“the circumstances surrounding the incident, your follow-up meeting, and your conduct throughout the investigation”
What were the circumstances that led to it? How did you behave in the followup meeting? How did you conduct yourself throughout the investigation?
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u/Abbygirl1001 18h ago
Yeah but that line is cited in support of the reduced sanction which would tend to indicate he comported himself well.
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u/HedgehogMinimum9299 18h ago
The circumstances was my roommate accused me of scratching his kettleware and then attacked me. (I didn't use his kettleware I have never cooked in my life) He said my respectful conduct during the fact finding process is why he is REDUCING my sanction
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u/Russian_Spy_7_5_0 i love the kind of woman that will actually just kill me 18h ago
Have they ever behaved like that before? This sound like more than just kettleware.
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u/HighSchoolMoose 15h ago
It’s pretty common for people to suddenly go crazy in college.
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u/soofs 17h ago
Sometimes people just have an outburst. I had a few friends in college who had very strange roommates, ranging from weird habits to just weird reactions to things (like 10 minute rants about that they found a sock that wasn’t in the laundry bin but on the floor next to it or a can of soda was thrown away in “their” trash can but they didn’t drink it), and would not have been surprised it suddenly it turned physical without anything being done on purpose
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u/Actual_Dinner_5977 18h ago
Some people and organizations just can't ever admit that they were wrong, and it sounds like your University is one of them. If they can't put words to what you did incorrect, there should be 0 warning or negative consequence.
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u/Black_Wolf1995 18h ago edited 18h ago
Zero tolerance polices at schools just serve to teach compliance and acceptance of people committing crimes against you, corporations who treat you like a slave, and government officials who trample your rights.
The System wants a populace of compliant and docile citizens who they can rule uncontrolled. They don’t want people who stand up for themselves. They don’t want people who know their rights. They don’t want people fighting back.
That’s because they want the easy control. They want that subservient mindless robot they can just push a button and go. They want that weak pathetic human who is too afraid to fight back against them.
Me? If I were OP, I would document this somewhere safe along with who sent this reply, when it was sent, and from what email. Then I would demand an appeal to the highest student management body on campus. If they didn’t remove this I would send a copy of this email with all photographs of my injuries to every news media outlet in the state. I would post about it in every social media outlet ran by NYU. I would talk about it in every public forum imaginable. I’d hand out flyers to everyone and publicly humiliate NYU until they remove this obvious fraudulent misconduct claim off my record completely and utterly.
Anyone caught standing up for themselves in a legitimate case of self-defense should automatically be cleared of any and all punishments. That includes criminal prosecution, civil liability, and administrative penalties like this from work/school boards. No one should have to worry about the repercussions of being black marked for defending such a basic human right such as safety.
I can guarantee you that if someone assaulted whoever wrote this email, they would absolutely not like it. So why send the message that you must tolerate being abused and assaulted by someone if you aren’t gonna tolerate it when it comes to your own safety. 🤔
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u/KimJungUnCool 16h ago
I would send this to the local news outlets/papers/tabloids, NYU will continue this BS if they don't get publicly shamed. As a NYer who grew up down the street from NYU, I hate to say it but....the NY Post would probably gobble this story up.
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u/mercyspace27 17h ago
Remember: The only thing you’re allowed to do is curl up in a ball and hope the pain ends quickly. /s
Zero Tolerance policies are a fucking joke.
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u/DM-me-naughty-Cats 18h ago
Sounds to me like they are doing everything they can to make you a participant, probably to lower their liability since they are the ones who put you with the roommate in the first place. They want to be able to say "we have given both of them disciplinary actions."
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u/notstrangelove 18h ago
Lmaooo what did they want you to do? Just get beat up and lay there passively? Lawyer up and go get their ass big dawg
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u/RecordingHot9826 ARGHHHHHHUGHHHHH 19h ago
r/extremelyinfuriating but on a real note you got assaulted and you defended yourself, that’s what truly matters here. Please take a little bit of action!
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u/Stumpsthewarwalrus 18h ago
Submit to them a written affidavit that their holding you responsible is being met with an “I think the fuck not, you trick ass bitch!” And you’re going to be seeking legal counsel.
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u/Ok_Tax9885 17h ago
This reads like 100% bruised ego on the part of the U. "Yes, we originally got the actual central facts of the situation wrong, and we do not assert that you caused the confrontation nor that your actions were in any way outside of your legal rights, but we're still giving you a disciplinary action because we can't admit we were actually wrong."
Everyone commenting that they have to give you a warning in order to have a record of this doesn't seem to understand that you can, in fact, keep records without unnecessary disciplinary action, or that there should also be a record regarding your assailant.
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u/okay4326 18h ago
I would appeal again and have you filed a criminal complaint against the person who attacked you with the police? Also, consider suing the person civilly due to the physical harm, the emotional harm, and harm to your reputation and college record. They may own very little now, but once they graduate?
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u/Miles1937 13h ago
Parade around the university with a cardboard poncho that says "NYU considers self defense an offense worth punishing" in the front and "NYU says if you're the victim of assault you should not defend yourself". Make memes about it, post it on social media.
Soon enough they will either "correct the record" a second time, or triple down and become the laughingstock of the whole country.
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u/ProfessorVVV 13h ago
A lot of folks have understandably responded with snark, because of course this happened. Or by suggesting a lawyer. But I think a few emails to the Office of Student Conduct and Community Standards could get this cleared up.
Start by clarifying what they’ve written, as you jot above: that they found you were attacked and all physical altercation was in defense of yourself. Ask them to articulate, specifically, what you should have done *instead of defending yourself* in an emergency, when not defending yourself would have led to significant danger and harm. (Don’t ask generally “what should I have done,” because they’ll say that you should have contacted an RA or authority figure.) Follow that up with a simple query: “Does this warning mean that it is NYU’s policy that victims of violence may not defend themselves while they are being physically assaulted? That is what I understand from your response and this written warning.”
See how this goes. If it doesn’t lead to their removing the warning, escalate to the Dean to whom that office reports.
If that doesn’t work, THEN note that you’ll have to make NYU’s policy about victims being punished for defending themselves public knowledge since it could lead to students being endangered, and contact the NYTimes with copies of all emails.
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u/rusty1066 18h ago
Ask the university, in writing, what a compliant response would have been. Have them show you the specific policy that supports their answer.
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u/Hairy_Wedding_4535 19h ago
So they’re telling you just next time sit there and let people beat on you… great advice NYU 🙄 naaah do what you can to fight this
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u/sean1oo1 19h ago
Threaten legal action they straighten shit out hella fast when lawyers become involved
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u/Zealousideal-Lab9843 19h ago
Threatening legal action is a bad move unless you're actually willing and able to make good on that threat.
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u/Mr_Wobble_PNW 18h ago
Especially when the party you're threatening action against has a legal department with folks on retainer. Even if OP is right and wins, it's gonna be expensive and take a while. It could be as simple for OP as finding a lawyer to send something on their letterhead, but even that isn't cheap usually. Also some companies will completely cease communications if you mention legal action and then only communicate through their legal department.
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u/Ashkendor 18h ago
When I worked at a call center, I absolutely loved it when people threatened legal action. The kind of person who will do this is usually difficult to begin with, and that threat was my cue to completely shut the call down. From that point on, the only information that I could offer was the mailing address for our legal department so their counsel could contact ours.
If you don't intend to follow through, threatening legal action is just shooting yourself in the foot. They're not gonna panic - they're gonna laugh and tell you to go pound sand.
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u/EasyMode556 18h ago
When I worked in retail customer service, any time a customer mentioned lawyers or law suits that was my easy “sorry let me get you a manger” pass that 100% of the time got me out of the situation (and the manager would usually just give them a business card to someone at a higher corporate level to speak to, who would then just refer them to their legal department and so forth)
It was always basically, “well you’ve now escalated this so much above my pay grade I’m not allowed to do or say anything at all anymore”
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u/zannet_t 18h ago
Redditors suggest lawyering up all the time as if there's no barrier, cost, etc. associated with it lol
OP's barely telling us half the story if an altercation required university staff and law enforcement intervention. Something serious occurred and OP's giving us an incomplete statement with no context.
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u/HedgehogMinimum9299 18h ago
I have posted about this before before the latest conduct decision and you can find those posts. I'll write it again here for full transparency: Before the incident, I had already reported concerns about this roommate’s behavior. A personal item had also gone missing from the room in May. On June 22, he confronted me over an alleged scratch on a kettle even though I do not cook and could not see the scratch he kept pointing to.
The confrontation became physical after he shoved me and tried to overpower me. My account is that he pinned me and put me in a headlock. I used force while restrained to defend myself. Two other students were present during the incident, and one attempted to pull him off me. After the restraint ended, I disengaged and called my father so police could be contacted. My roommate was removed from the room afterward.
NYU’s original finding materially reversed the central fact. It said that I had put him in a headlock and failed to disengage. I appealed and pointed out that the headlock was done to me, not by me, and that the witness evidence did not support the original version.
NYU has now expressly referred to a “corrected factual record,” reduced my sanction, acknowledged that my roommate initiated the physical confrontation, and acknowledged that my actions occurred in the context of defending myself.
But it still found me responsible without saying that my defensive force was excessive, disproportionate, unnecessary, or continued after the threat ended. The stated rationale is simply that using physical force contributed to a dangerous incident.
So yes, something serious happened. That is exactly why the reasoning is so infuriating: after correcting the record and admitting both initiation and self-defense, NYU still preserved a responsibility finding merely because I physically resisted the person attacking me.
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u/digitalclockface 15h ago
They've admitted in writing that they got the circumstances wrong yet they still punish you. If you can afford it you should hire a lawyer. At the very least consulting a lawyer couldn't hurt.
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u/zannet_t 18h ago
Thanks for providing that context and I'm sorry that happened. I hope NYU is at least moving you two away from each other.
What was the penalty for your roommate?
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u/BaboonMetaphysics 15h ago
No. If OP threatens legal action the student conduct team will stop communicating with him and will refer all future communications to go to NYU's lawyers.
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u/Muted-Woodpecker-469 18h ago
Couldn’t not defending yourself result in crime scene investigators?
When victims get treated as bad or worse than the suspects, we’ve really gone too far in the whole spectrum of coddling the wackos
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u/BLWedge09 17h ago
I’m glad they corrected the record and reduced the sanction
I would argue that they did not, in fact, correct the record.
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u/Pl0OnReddit 13h ago
Charge your roommate for assault then get a restraining order. Let the university deal with that. Sue the university if that doesn't immediately clear the situation up.
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u/Treacle_Pendulum 7h ago
I’d probably take that letter into a lawyer’s office and have them write a few letters to the university and use a few key phrases including “inadequate security”
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u/Lazy-Interests 1h ago
Respond back and ask them if you are attacked physically again, are you supposed to just stand there and wait for the attack to end, hoping you survive the onslaught of violence, and ask them if that is how they would handle being physically attacked.
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u/CallmeKahn 17h ago
In New York, the justification for self-defense is the existence of an imminent threat, the use of proportional force, and a duty to retreat if you can safely do so. If these circumstances exist and support you, I would ask the Dean to drop it as you have no fault in this matter.
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u/College-student-life 18h ago
Sounds like they expected you to just take the beating and deal with it. That’s usually how it goes in anything self defense coming from a woman who’s had plenty of BS sent her way about just being quiet and taking it from men. I’d lawyer up and sue them for putting your safety at risk for allowing aggressive male students on campus and in the campus housing, allowing them to cause harm to others. Also for putting your schooling at risk by giving you an unwarranted warning.
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u/foley800 17h ago
This is pretty typical for schools, part of their “zero tolerance” policies. You are only supposed to let them beat you up and you still might get dinged for “participating”! School administrators tend to side with the aggressor as it is easier for them.
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u/Mister_Normal42 17h ago
I’d look into who the other person’s parents are. That will probably explain everything.
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u/OkBodybuilder418 16h ago
Terrible mental stress for being disciplined as the victim…sue the school
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u/plmbob 15h ago
Welcome to the real world pal. You were involved in an altercation and an incident report was created. Those never end with “and the OP was completely exonerated while their peers gave them a standing ovation celebrating their righteousness”. Move on, the written warning will have zero impact on your life unless you allow it to make you bitter and start a life of crime
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u/catqween 11h ago
In college, a girl told school admins I had a fake ID. She’d never seen it, I told them I didn’t have one, didn’t matter.
I was threatened with expulsion, forced to take an ethics class and had to pay a fine when I couldn’t produce the non-existent fake ID. GOOD TIMES.
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u/rcbz1994 11h ago
I’d respond and say “next time I’ll let him kick the shit out of me and then sue y’all for endangerment”
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u/777300ER 10h ago
Not much has changed. When I was in college in the early 2000's we had someone out of their mind on meth attempt to break into the dorm. Mind you, this was after he had already attacked several people outside the dorm. This guy smashed through and was pulling apart vandal proof glass with his bare hands, just shredding them. The RA and I used pool cues to keep him on the other side of the door until police arrived. It took five officers to subdue this guy, and he was a pretty small guy.
I was written up for fighting. The RD, honest to God, scolded me for "confronting" the individual and not "care-fronting" him and thinking about his life circumstances before I poked him with a pool cue. I mean he just fought with about six other people, two of which had to go to the hospital. Sorry I didn't try talking first!
I had to go through the disciplinary process and received a written warning. The part that pissed me off the most is that it explicitly stated that I'd not shown remorse for my actions!
Also, I had to miss a family trip for the trial that the DA let him plead out on the day before and he ended up with only probation and time served.
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u/Babescarr 10h ago
ay dios, esto es tan frustrante de leer 😔
admiten que tu compañero empezó la pelea, admiten que actuaste en defensa propia, corrigen el registro oficial… y aun así te dejan con una advertencia porque “contribuiste al incidente” al defenderte. o sea… ¿qué se supone que tenías que hacer? ¿quedarte ahí parada recibiendo golpes para no “poner en riesgo la seguridad”? es tan absurdo. Se siente exactamente como una movida típica de universidades para cubrirse las espaldas. no quieren admitir que se equivocaron del todo, entonces hacen este medio paso donde reconocen casi todo pero te dejan ahí colgando. al menos bajaron la sanción y corrigieron los hechos, pero igual da mucha rabia que no te hayan dejado completamente libre. Honestamente, estas políticas de “cero tolerancia” suenan bien en papel pero en la vida real terminan castigando a la persona que se defiende. me pone de nervios pensar que le pueda pasar a cualquiera.
¿a alguien más le ha tocado lidiar con administraciones universitarias que hacen este tipo de cosas raras? o ¿cómo terminaste resolviéndolo al final?
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u/Tall_Opportunity_521 8h ago edited 7h ago
Appeal that shit.
Section III of NYU's University Student Conduct Policy contains multiple subsections. The relevant ones are:
- B.1: Engaging in behavior that endangers or compromises health or safety.(which they have cited)
- B.3: "Physical violence, actual or threatened, against any individual or group of persons."(which they have argued)
From what you've described, NYU appears to have found you responsible under B.3 because your defensive actions involved physical force.
However, it says nothing about self defense being prohibited, nor does it state that all uses of physical force are misconduct regardless of justification. It simply prohibits "physical violence."
Send this, or reword it as you see fit:
Subject**:** Request for Reconsideration of Finding Under University Student Conduct Policy B1
Dear [Appeals Officer/Office of Student Conduct],
I respectfully request reconsideration of the finding that I violated University Student Conduct Policy B1.
I appreciate that the Office corrected the factual record and acknowledged that my roommate initiated the physical confrontation. I also appreciate that the decision expressly recognizes that my actions occurred in the context of defending myself.
However, I believe the decision does not adequately explain how the factual findings support a violation of B1.
The decision finds that:
*I did not initiate the physical confrontation.
*My actions occurred while defending myself.
The decision does not find that:
*I used excessive or unnecessary force;
*I continued using force after the threat had ended;
*I retaliated against my roommate; or
*Any specific action I took independently that endangered the safety of others beyond responding to the assault.
Instead, the decision concludes that I am responsible because my use of physical force "contributed to an incident that endangered the safety of those involved and required intervention by University staff and law enforcement."
Respectfully, this conclusion does not explain how my conduct satisfies Policy B1.
B1 prohibits engaging in behavior that endangers or compromises health or safety. The decision acknowledges that the incident began because another student physically attacked me and that my actions occurred while defending myself. It does not identify any particular act on my part that exceeded what was reasonably necessary for self defense or otherwise constituted prohibited conduct under B1.
The fact that an altercation required intervention does not, by itself, establish that every participant violated the policy. The decision does not explain why my defensive conduct, as distinguished from the assault initiated by another student, constitutes behavior prohibited by B1. The decision effectively places me in the position of either submitting to a physical assault or risking discipline for protecting myself. I respectfully submit that this result is inconsistent with both the language and purpose of Policy B1 unless the University can identify conduct beyond reasonable self defense that violated the policy.
If the University's interpretation of B1 is that any use of physical force in self defense automatically constitutes a violation regardless of necessity or proportionality, I respectfully request that the decision identify the policy language supporting that interpretation. If that is not the University's interpretation, I respectfully request that the Office identify the specific conduct it found violated B1.
Because the factual findings acknowledge that I acted in self defense and do not identify any excessive, retaliatory, or otherwise improper conduct on my part. I respectfully request that the finding of responsibility and the written warning be vacated.
Thank you for your time and consideration.
Sincerely,
[Your Name]
Good luck, bud.
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u/TheSchausi 6h ago
Request in writing a written guid on how to behave in this situation whitout violating the policies. If they refuse, keep bothering them.
If no statement is given (within a time set by you), thraten to go public (news) with it.
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u/RealLifeCoaching 4h ago
This is a perfect example of a luxury belief.
There are some ideas so stupid that only an academic could believe them.
In this case, anyone who has actually experienced a situation where they needed to defend themselves would understand why this ruling is not simply unjust, but dangerous.
By penalising you for defending yourself, they are creating what lawyers call a 'chilling effect'; next time someone is the victim of aggression, they might hesitate to defend themselves, for fear of getting in trouble for it. And that, ironically enough, actually does contribute to creating an unsafe environment.
The person who wrote up this conclusion is unfit to hold any position of authority over anyone.
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u/ChardDifficult2094 3h ago
Object to this, write a letter back, that you DO NOT accept this decision. Acting in self defence when attacked is not wrong in any way.
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u/Competitive-Food8407 3h ago
This is what happens when there is a zero tolerance policy for "fighting". You should have allowed yourself to be beaten on, possibly severely injured rather then defend yourself. Now because you physically defended yourself and didnt5just submit to the assualt you will suffer the consequences.
These types of policies need to be eliminated from all schools everywhere. If a person is acting in self defense even the US legal system recognizes that as a justification, but your local education system does not. Little Johnny better take his beating from the bully and then drag his wounded ass to an administrator and tattle. The idiocy of zero tolerance violence standards revealed in all their glory 🤬
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u/rixukiri 3h ago
All zero tolerance teaches is that you get into a fight, might as well be the one to end it since the punishment will be the same anyway
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u/highschoolhero24 18h ago
Zero tolerance policies are stupid and counterproductive.