r/The10thDentist • u/Lucyyyyyy_K • 1d ago
Animals/Nature Big Dogs should only be allowed in public with a muzzle
Dog attacks with serious consequences happen. Especially to people who are already scared of dogs, since dogs can sense that. Every owner thinks their own dog is harmless, but it's not like they can truly know that. Yes, it sucks for the dog, it's not their fault, but also you probably wouldn't want them to be put down because they follow their instinct. And if you can't handle either, don't have a dog.
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u/RinFlowers 1d ago
A leash is fine. Dogs shouldn't be off leash in public, and you should, you know, make sure you're holding the leash with your dog attached to it and also not let your dog be close enough to bite someone while they're on the leash. Harnesses are also good instead of just having the leash attached to a collar. And make sure you can actually control your dog while they're on the leash and not yank you onto the ground to go bite someone. If you aren't strong enough to control your big dog on a leash then I dunno man, shrink your dog or work out or something.
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u/No_Oddjob 23h ago
Visited a beach a few weeks ago that was supposedly pet friendly but required pets be on leashes.
A couple brought their three very large and one kinda large dog, and those dogs were having a blast. The owners were throwing a four foot tree branch into the water and the dogs would chase it and fight over it, and it sounded like wolves trying to murder a bear.
My two small dogs were less thrilled. One was really distracted by all the fighting noise and wanted to get into on the action. My other was super nervous about it. No bigs, we kept them very close and under control, though it took extra effort while these other dogs plowed through the water like Clydesdales in a beer commercial.
Then the cops showed up bc some folks and dragged wave runners into the swimming area (not running, but still against the rules).
The cops also told the big dog owners they needed to leave.
Incredulant, these young adults exclaimed, "The sign says they need to be leashed! They're ALL on leashes!"
Important footnote: at no time had any human been holding the other end of said leashes. The dogs were running free with leashes dangling like ribbons since their arrival.
It just so happens we had just finished packing up and were loading our car when the fuzz showed up, so no telling it they would have said anything to us who were actually being respectful to everyone with our nearly harmless ankle-biters, but I was beside myself with how these legal adults believed a controlled and leashed animal and a giant dog dragging three feet of rope freely are the same thing.
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u/RinFlowers 23h ago
They should have absolutely been fined, for each of those dogs that were off leash. And someone who believes that a dog having a leash attached to them that no-one is actually holding is what "on leash" means is clearly too dumb to own a dog. Of course, they probably don't actually think that and were just saying that to play dumb or whatever.
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u/Willing-Time7344 23h ago
100%.
My local regulations specifically say "on leash and under control."
Obviously the dog is not under control if yoi arent holding the leash.
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u/Embarrassed_Age8554 18h ago
Dumb, or maybe rules-lawyering: "The law says they have to be leashed, not that someone has to be holding the leash!" Of course, only an idiot thinks that's clever...
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u/nnnnnnnbbbbbb 20h ago
I live by a bunch of lakes (i could drive to 15 different ones in a 30 minute radius) and nobody leashes their dogs at the lakes here. Two days ago, I took my dog paddle boarding, he’s a 7 lb chihuahua. After we were done paddleboarding, we were just hanging out on the beach. A couple showed up with 2 big dogs. The dogs were so interested in my chi but I wasn’t letting them get close because I don’t know them or the owners.
Anyways, there was also a family there with 3 kids and one of the kids was TERRIFIED of the dogs. The mom was on the beach trying to console her while the others were in the water playing. Eventually, she decided that she couldn’t be consoled so they were going to leave and the other kids in the water were screaming because they were too scared to leave because of the dogs being in the way. Eventually they got the courage and ran, then the owners of the large dogs were mean mugging me and my chihuahua because they couldn’t control the dogs being my interested.
This had nothing to do with your story but I needed to tell someone
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u/WirrkopfP 21h ago
A leash is fine.
As long as the person holding the leash is physically capable to hold the leash when the dog decides to just run.
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u/Embarrassed_Age8554 21h ago
It should be a real leash, too--not those retractable things that let you pretend your dog is leashed while it basically runs loose, 16 to 26 feet from you.
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u/dancarbonell00 22h ago
All those reasons you said about not being able to control are literally exactly why they're talking about having the muzzle though..
Kind of funny
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u/ConsequenceFeisty252 23h ago edited 23h ago
My 100 pound mother scares me sometimes walking her dog that weighs as much as her and is clearly reactive and aggressive to everything....if push comes to shove she cannot control that dog. I've had to step in and grab the dog myself because my mother isn't quite strong enough to truly restrain it. I don't think dangerous dogs are quite as common as OP thinks but I can attest from anecdotal evidence that there are arrogant people walking clearly dangerous dogs they cannot control and therefore accidents waiting to happen.
ETA: not that I necessarily think muzzles are the solution, I have no idea if muzzles hurt dogs in any way
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u/SpicyNoodle4 23h ago
My mom has a 150 pound German shepherd who is wildly reactive and she refuses to train him. One day, after about two years of ownership, she decided to take him on his first walk. They got about 25 yards and he saw a cat and took off, dragging my poor mother through the street until she could dig her feet in and control him. I’m impressed she didn’t let go, and I’m grateful she only had some road rash and nothing else happened, but my GOD she’s a terrible pet owner.
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u/NarrativeScorpion 22h ago
150lb for a German shepherd?
Either you've got no idea of it's actual weight, it's not a GS, or it's horrifically obese. Breed standard is 65-90lbs for a full grown adult male.
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u/SpicyNoodle4 22h ago
He’s from a farm breeder of livestock guardians, he might have some mixed breeds in his line somewhere but he was sold as a GS. He’s about 30” tall, which is huge for a GS. He is overweight, his healthiest weight was about 130 pounds when he was more lean. His most recent vet visit he was 148 pounds. Like I said, she’s a terrible pet owner. Why she would get a bred livestock guardian to be her living room trophy is beyond me. She free feeds him, never trained him, never walks him, and once in a while she just tethers him outside for ‘exercise’.
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u/Embarrassed_Age8554 21h ago edited 21h ago
What happened to the collie belonging to a tenant of mine could easily happen to your mom's dog. I inherited this tenant when my aunt died. I was young and dumb, thought it was OK for this tenant to have a dog because the property had a yard, and didn't realize that tying up your dog in the back yard for extended periods of time was a form of abuse.
What I didn't know was that this guy left the dog to its own devices for most of every day, feeding and watering it when he remembered to. Every now and then he "felt sorry" for the dog. Which didn't mean that he took it for a run or went to play Frisbee with it in the park: it meant that he turned it loose to run around the neighborhood. And did I mention that it had never been neutered? Well, it had never been neutered. So it was territorial. And one day it up and bit his neighbor lady and she needed a dozen stitches in her face and neck.
That was the end for the dog--and the tenant too. Come to find out, he was the neighborhood drug lord. After the sheriff put him out I found that he had trashed the place. It took weeks to fix all the damage.
The lesson I eventually learned was that every time a tenant's pet caused a problem, the tenant was invariably a terrible person I should never have rented to. So now I'm pet friendly--within limits; I won't rent to anyone whose pets aren't neutered and vaxxed for rabies, or to an animal hoarder. But in general, I'm happy to rent to a good pet owner. If you're responsible with your pet, you're probably responsible in every other way that counts.
On the other hand, your mom's dog sounds like precisely the disaster that my tenant's dog was. An intelligent, high-drive dog needs limits, and something to stave off boredom and engage its doggy mind. A dog that was bred to work needs a job. Otherwise the trouble that it can cause is in direct proportion to its size, drive and brains.
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u/Fit-Rhubarb-7820 20h ago
the issue is this: Dogs are quadrupeds and they can push/pull leverage HARDER than us, and we are also at a disadvantage because we are upright bipeds, with a higher center of mass...
One time, I held a "pocket bully" dog, 200lbs of squat Potato, with a mouth wide enough to breath in a whole basketball. It felt like I was trying to hold a run-away-lawn mower, with a leash. Absolutely foul creature for sure!
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u/RinFlowers 20h ago
The vast majority of people definitely shouldn't own a dog that big, that would require a lot more training than a smaller dog and a lot of people don't even bother training them to not bark at everyone who walks past. A 200lb dog can absolutely pull basically anyone over if it suddenly decides to bolt, so you gotta train them to not do that, if not, do not take that dog out in public
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u/Fit-Rhubarb-7820 20h ago
exactly!
Unfortunately, I suspect most dog owners are people with lower-than-average IQs, or else dangerously/malignantly incompetent.. Or they have been worn down and degraded, because of their EQs lowering from loving on dogs, so much.
"the moment I trust a dog owner/car, is a moment I could die."
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u/ohSpite 22h ago
And make sure you can actually control your dog
For a lot of these big dogs you'd need to be Eddie fucking Hall to achieve that. Muzzling should be the default, rather than trusting bone headed dog owners
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u/_Felonius 21h ago
Eh my dog is a 108 lb shepherd. I can control him fine as a normal mid-30s male (I’m active but I don’t lift weights). It’s just about technique, training, and the right type of leash. Plus, he loves humans.
He hates cats though. If I see a cat across the street I just brace myself for him to pull.
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u/RinFlowers 20h ago
If you can't control your dog you shouldn't take them out in public. It's not just about fully physically overpowering a big dog, they should be trained so that they don't try to lunge at things or run off suddenly and knock you over. You also need like, at least a certain level of strength, so don't get a dog that is twice your weight. In fact, most people shouldn't be getting big dogs at all because they don't know what they're doing. Actually, a lot of people shouldn't own a dog period, but this is another matter entirely.
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u/Funexamination 20h ago
Why are you avoiding the muzzle so much? It’s such a simple thing that accomplishes all the goals
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u/RinFlowers 20h ago
The original post is arguing that big dogs should not be allowed in public at all without muzzles on because they might bite people. But the muzzle should not be necessary because a dog should never be in a situation where they have been allowed to be uncontrolled and untrained and is going to bite someone. I mean, in that situation the dog is still potentially like jumping on and knocking someone over which could injure them anyway.
Muzzles, as far as I know, can be perfectly humane, so I don't have a problem with people choosing to use them as long as they know what they're doing. Maybe they're in the process of training their dog and don't want to risk it just in case. But REQUIRING everyone to muzzle their dogs at all times in public is too much.
That being said, I'm also in support of having like, stricter requirements on dog ownership, especially for large dogs that require more training. As it is, I can see the benefit of someone putting a muzzle on their dog if they haven't trained the dog properly and it might actually get out of their control and go bite someone. That isn't really a proper solution to the problem though.
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u/Funexamination 19h ago
I personally find a hard stop like muzzle to be a much better way to prevent error than merely educating people or even having a license for that matter. It’s called forcing functions. Make it physically impossible for a dog to bite someone. Bad people and bad dog owners will always exist. No one would willingly say “I’m a bad dog owner, so I’ll put a muzzle on my dog” unless everyone has to, then they’re covered.
Licenses are an alternative but the problem is they require more work to verify. You can just see a big dog not having a muzzle on and know they are breaking the rules.
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u/RinFlowers 19h ago
Perhaps. What would be best really comes down to statistics that I simply don't have enough information on and would differ from country to country among other factors. If introducing mandatory muzzles for dogs over a certain size was proven to reduce dog bites significantly and didn't have downsides that outweighed that positive, it would make sense to implement.
Kinda comes down to whether it would actually do anything, like, a lot of the time when I hear about a dog attacking someone the owner had them off leash when they weren't supposed to or the dog escaped from their yard. There's probably like, a certain amount of dog bites per year it would need to prevent for it to be worth implementing a rule like that. If it lowered the amount of dog bites per year by like 1% at the cost of all big dogs having to wear muzzles in public all the time, that's not really worth it and would be very difficult to track anyway. But if reduced them by like, 50%, even 20%, sure. I just don't think it would. At least where I live, maybe in some countries it would work.
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u/Funexamination 17h ago
I can agree with that. A balanced take considering the cost. I don’t know how many dog bites are from dogs that were leashed, that seems important
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u/_Felonius 17h ago
Muzzles just seem cruel to me. I admit I’ve done zero research on them, but I like to see my dog sniffing and panting freely, especially when it’s hot outside. I’m sure it’s uncomfortable.
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u/Mudslingshot 15h ago
A dog being big doesn't mean it's going to bite
For example, police K9s are always Balgian Malinois' or GSDs, because they have really low bite inhibition compared to other smart breeds that learn well
And they STILL have to go through specific training to teach them to bite people they don't know without the cues that tell a dog "bite this"
Any dog that reacts violently to strangers has TONS wrong with it, and the kind of person who can raise a dog like that is just not the kind of person who would ever take their dog in public (or for a walk, or inside their house, etc)
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u/Dull-Geologist-8204 22h ago
My parents let me get a dog when I was 7 and I was small even for a 7 year old. That dog used to drag me all over the neighborhood and sometimes on my stomach. When I complained about it to my parents they were like you asked for the dog so it's your responsibility. I was like you know this isn't safe for me or the dog right? I honestly wasn't trying to get out of my responsibilities. Also didn't help that the dog was dumber then a box of rocks. We got her in the 80's and right after we got her from a breeder is when all the news about inbreeding came out. I was looking at my dog going well that explains a lot. Lesson learned and my family never got another dog from a breeder again. Don't get me wrong as she was a sweet dog just really dumb and not really trainable.
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u/WarmHippo6287 1d ago
In our town, there is an ordinance that dogs over a certain weight must take the CGC (canine good citizen test). For those who don't know what that is, it's an easier version of the public access test that is given to service dogs. If big dogs are taking that, I see no reason for them to have to muzzle. Maybe have other towns do that too.
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u/Defiant_apricot 23h ago
I like this idea depending on what the test is. Does it measure reactivity and friendliness or ability to recall etc? My dog has absolute shit recall since he’s a retired racing grey but is genuinely the sweetest idiot. We just don’t let him off leash and carefully control his access to outside. He is great around kids, knows when a dog isn’t interested, listens to “leave it” for people food and animals.
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u/SpicyRobotPotato 23h ago
My dog had to be able to enter a room with other people and dogs while I held a cup of water in my leash hand without spilling it, sit calmly while I spoke to other people, and be able to greet other dogs and come back when called. I don't remember what else we had to do, but it was generally a test of whether the dog wasn't a jerk around others.
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u/Defiant_apricot 22h ago
Mine would pass everything except the recall and sitting. He is a greyhound, that breed physically cannot sit. That breed also has notoriously poor recall so we have ways of managing it.
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u/SpicyRobotPotato 22h ago
I'm sure there would be exceptions to the sitting parts for a dog that physically cannot do it. Mine is a husky, also with pretty poor recall, but we got it eventually with a ton of practice.
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u/Defiant_apricot 22h ago
Nice! I’m glad! It does sound like humanity would benefit from a test like this for dogs. How do you train it before the test? Are you allowed to socialize your dog before they pass?
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u/SpicyRobotPotato 22h ago
I went to a dog trainer that has a class just for CGC, and she took a puppy obedience class before that. Both courses were 6 weeks, 1 hour per week. She had plenty of practice and socialization before the test, and none of the people or dogs in the test were complete strangers.
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u/Defiant_apricot 22h ago
That’s epic! How much did it cost?
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u/SpicyRobotPotato 21h ago
I want to say in the neighborhood of $150 for each of the courses. It was 11 years ago though.
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u/All__Of_The_Hobbies 22h ago
They can sit. They just often don't like to because it isn't comfortable for some of them. But saying they physically can't sit is false. I'm sure you could use a down command instead.
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u/WarmHippo6287 22h ago
If you're just taking the test for general purposes like I stated earlier they would make exceptions. The purpose of the test is just to make sure your dog isn't a menace to society lol. The only time they don't tend to offer exceptions is if the dog is taking it in preparation for a working dog position for example, going into a service dog program, therapy dog, k9 program, etc. No exceptions on those. My dog was going into a service dog program, we were grilled hard on that CGC. But other dogs that were there because of the ordinance were given some passes.
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u/SpicyRobotPotato 23h ago
I put the little ribbon my dog got for passing the CGC test on the fridge. That has nothing to do with the muzzle conversation, I just think it's cute.
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u/AmericanHistoryXX 22h ago
What's the weight cutoff?
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u/WarmHippo6287 22h ago
Don't quote me because it's been a long time since I read that ordinance but I believe it was 40 pounds.
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u/AmericanHistoryXX 22h ago
Interesting. Thing is, I could see that for a dog that's big enough that you can't control it purely physically, but some of the requirements are a bit more excessive than necessary for everyday situations. For example, it's not necessary that a stranger be able to go up and handle a dog's paws for them to be safe in public. I think 40 pounds is quite a bit too low.
In my hometown, you have to have the CGC certification for any off-leash dog, but dogs on leash don't have such stringent requirements. I think that's appropriate.
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u/WarmHippo6287 22h ago
I can see that. Maybe our town has it because even though we have a leash law, no one enforces it. So all dogs tend to be off leash all the time everywhere. When they came up with the test, they had the safety of vets in mind when they created it not necessarily the entire public. So thats where the handling of a dog's paws by a stranger part came into the test came from.
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u/Cultural_Road_1684 23h ago
It should be mandatory for people who wants to own big dogs to go through a dog training course. That would solve 99% of all problems.
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u/Remarkable_Print1643 7h ago
What about the other 1%?
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u/Cultural_Road_1684 5h ago
Yeah that is always the problem - no solution is 100%. Even keeping them on leash and muzzled is not 100% - a muzzle can break/fall off, a leash can break or get pulled out of the hand. If we allow any dogs to be pets, accidents and bites WILL happen. there is no way around it. I have only been bitten once in my whole life, and that was by a small poodle.
Maybe the best we could do, besides mandatory dog training, would be a mandatory yearly "dog check-up" with a dog specialist that would assess the mental state of the dog.
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u/DeathBringer444 1d ago
Every single person you walk by also had a chance to knife you or shoot you or attack you. Attacks with “serious consequences” can happen from both dogs and humans. At least most dogs are leashed.
The idea that an attack could happen does not imply that all dogs should be muzzled. In the same way that we do not punish 99% of people for the violent nature of the last 1%.
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u/Lucyyyyyy_K 23h ago
Every single person you walk by also had a chance to knife you or shoot you or attack you.
Yes. Now imagine them already holding the gun or knife in their hand. That's what dogs feel like.
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u/Enygmatic_Gent 22h ago
You said it yourself “feels like”, but that’s not reality for the majority of people
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u/DeathBringer444 23h ago
I don’t think most people feel this way around dogs, but I wouldn’t expect anything less from this subreddit.
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u/MrE134 23h ago
We absolutely should normalize muzzles. I don’t see a major trend of leashed dogs biting people though.
Usually when I see something like that on the news it was someone already breaking the law letting the dog off leash. I doubt those people are going to muzzle their dogs either way.
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u/thedemonpianist 1d ago
So, ALL dogs should be muzzled. Because ANY dog can bite. Thats your actual point, are you just scared of big dogs? No shade, i have a dog phobia, but it sounds like youre just scared, not actually in danger.
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u/nottheblackhat 20h ago
damage from the most rageful bite of a pomeranian is not even close to the harm that can occur from even a playful bite from a dogo argentino
yes, both are dogs and both can bite, but applying the same rules to both dogs doesn't make much sense to me
and also, in my experience with dogs and dog owners small dog owners take better care of their pets safety.
big dog owners rarely care
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u/h_fiasco 1d ago
I mean, small dogs may be less physically strong but they still have really sharp teeth and strong jaws. I'd argue they're harder to get off because they're more evasive and harder to catch if they're being aggressive. Where do you draw the line? At what point is a dog considered large? If dogs are all truly unpredictable, why are guide and other service providing dogs allowed to do their jobs? According to your logic, they must still have a moment where they'll go ballistic despite rigorous training and being able to lead blind people through their daily lives 🙄
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u/StrawRider42 1d ago
Hilarious bad take
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u/EngineeringTight367 1d ago
Give arguments troll
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u/WorryNotBanIncoming 23h ago
Dogs are fine. Don’t punish my dog because you have delicate sensibilities
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u/Kinderjohren 23h ago
Size and agression among breeds aren't correlated. It's mostly about acting upon people's phobias, as a safety measure it's usefulness is questionable to say the least.
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u/StrawRider42 23h ago
Nah people like op aren't worth the effort they can't be changed just laughed at you don't try to explain optical illusions to a animal you just laugh when they fall for them
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u/wamydia 23h ago
Men should only be allowed in public while wearing handcuffs. Assaults, rapes, and murders happen and the vast majority are perpetrated by men. Men assault people more often than dogs bite anyone. Everyone thinks the men in their life are harmless, but it’s not like they can truly know that.
No one should be allowed to drive cars. Car accidents happen and people get seriously hurt or die all the time. People are injured or killed by people driving cars far more often than people are bitten by dogs. Everyone thinks they are a good driver who could never have an accident, but it’s not like they could truly know that.
No one should be allowed to spray herbicides or pesticides on their lawn. It’s technically poison and there are thousands of documented cases every year or kids and animals getting sick from playing in the grass or from chemical drift. Everyone thinks they are being safe by putting up those little signs, but it’s not like they could truly know that.
See how stupid this sounds?
Adding more rules, regulations, controls, limits, etc on anything and everything as a preemptive measure because it’s possible that something bad could happen is how you end up with a society with no choices and no freedom. Accidents happen and it sucks, but trying to control every single thing in the name of “just in case” is a slippery slope and a recipe for everyone to end up miserable. Life involves a certain degree of risk, especially for people who are willing to leave their bedroom and go out into the world. I’m afraid you’re just going to have to get over it instead of trying to impose weird rules on everything you are afraid of.
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u/Lucyyyyyy_K 23h ago
Yes, there should be better prevention of violence commited by men. Yes, there should be more public transport instead of cars. Yes, no one should be allowed to spray herbicides or pesticides on their lawn. I however don't think that the best way for all of this to happen is via bans.
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u/BarleyWineIsTheBest 21h ago
Whoosh.
So what is the cost of the regulation? Include primary and more secondary impacts. How is it going to be enforced? Will it be followed? So combined, will that actually solve any sort of problem or just create new ones?
This is tantamount to many gun regulations. Law abiding citizens lock up their guns, take firearm safety classes, train and practice safely with their guns. Mandating a gun lock be sold with the gun, doesn’t ensure it is used. A person breaking the law with a gun is already breaking the law. That $12 gun lock you mandated is doing nothing.
What has been shown to matter in gun laws, following this analogy, is owners being liable for damages if guns aren’t stored properly. And guess what, the same basic liability for damages exists with a dog already. The $12 muzzle is the mandated gun lock that has been repeated shown not to matter.
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u/MeowFrozi 23h ago
A dog isn't more likely to attack just because they're bigger. Smaller dogs can do real damage if they try too. (I'm absolutely NOT saying that small dogs should be muzzled by default either)
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u/Embarrassed_Age8554 21h ago
Exactly. I think small to medium dogs may be more of a problem because a lot of people think aggression is cute or harmless when it's coming from a small dog. Our neighbor's little dog gave my father a bite on the ankle that he ended up needing antibiotics for, and my cousin's high-strung mutt lunged at me and sank his teeth into my hand because I sneezed.
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u/Thymelaeaceae 1d ago
Now do cars.
Now do men.
If we can’t handle any risk such that dog muzzles are required for all large dogs, surely something more must be done about the above issues that involve many more severe injuries and attacks than dogs.
You are phobic. You are not wrong that there is some risk, but are vastly overestimating the risk from the thing you are phobic about.
Most serious dog attacks take place in or very near the dog’s own home anyway, in situations where most dogs wouldn’t be muzzled by your rule.
There are controls in place. They are imperfect. Leashes are required in most public areas. Dogs are confiscated and put down for biting. But the fact is we are all around a lot of dogs in public and the vast majority of dogs you meet in public don’t bite passerby humans or randomly attack.
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u/JConRed 22h ago
Most cars are already designed to have pedestrian (and passenger) safety measures included. Such as seat belts, and specific angles for hoods so that pedestrians aren't squished completely, wheels that aren't proud of the wheel-well. We have speed limits, especially in areas where people will be encountered...
These are all features implemented to reduce risks.
A muzzle would reduce the risk from dogs in similar ways.
I'm not saying that I categorically agree with OP, however that your argument brings up areas of life where we already do lots to mitigate risk.
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u/Longjumping-Wash-610 1d ago
You can know. I had a dog for 17 years that never hurt anybody. That's predictable.
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u/prettywords_ 1d ago
A lot of people who's dogs have attacked someone have thought the same thing.
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u/WorryNotBanIncoming 23h ago
Let’s not pretend this is a dog only thing,
When a kid shoots up a school or stabs another kid to death or kills their friends in a DUI, the first thing parents say is
“I raised him differently than this! He was such a good little boy!”
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u/No_Resource845 1d ago
Usually when a dog that has been a perfect little angel the entire time suddenly snaps, it's some sort of neural degeneration. So no, you can't predict that. When good dogs suddenly snap like that, there's usually an underlying issue that can't always be foreseen.
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u/Lucyyyyyy_K 23h ago
So it can happen.
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u/No_Resource845 23h ago
Yes. It can. And I say that as a dog lover. When a dog that has been good for like 10+ years suddenly snaps and lashes out at some, there's likely an underlying issue. But it does indeed happen.
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u/2M4D 1d ago
How many people thinks the same way and then something happens ? I’m not even saying you’re necessarily wrong but for this line of thinking to be valid you have to believe neither the dog nor their owner is capable of failure, which is a pretty wild bet.
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u/Longjumping-Wash-610 23h ago
I don't really believe them. 99 percent of the time I believe their dog showed signs of aggression beforehand.
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u/Longjumping-Wash-610 23h ago
If you're talking to me my dog wasn't big so I couldn't really fail in that sense.
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u/Lucyyyyyy_K 1d ago
Until it happens.
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u/Patches3362 1d ago
“Had”, the dog has passed now OP. It literally cannot happen
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u/Ill-Description3096 23h ago
Can medium dogs not attack people? I'll clue you in - they can and do. In this policy, what exactly be the threshold for "big"? 20lbs? 50lbs? 100lbs? Is it height instead? A combination? Bite force of the dog?
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u/SecondComprehensive7 23h ago
I’ve only been bitten by dachshunds and that shit bled! I’ve been around a gazillion gentle giant dogs. They have no interest in human flesh.
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u/undercaffeinatedcrow 23h ago
Lost my two rez dogs early this year. 17 and 11 years old. Large mutts with every reason to be bitey and aggressive. I trusted them with every fiber of my being, I train my dogs to be as safe as possible around humans. The 11 year old was often in a muzzle due to her health, we had to prevent her from eating everything she found on the road. The issue with dog bites is majorly a lack of training. Sure any dog can bite, but a well raised one won't unless something extreme happens. In the case of my two, nobody was ever bit, even when a vet forgot to freeze my dogs foot before stitching her up. The thing is, muzzles don't mean aggression, or that you are safe because the dog is muzzled. What needs to happen is for people to work with their pets and train them to be safe. It's fine to be afraid of dogs, but it's not the dogs problem. I'm all for using the muzzle but not just to appease someone who might be afraid. I used my dogs to teach dog phobic people how to handle being around large dogs and why they shouldn't be afraid. Even though both of my girls are dead, I still have kids I helped asking if they can take my dogs for a walk. You don't need to muzzle your dogs to make random strangers more comfortable, but you do need to train them to be safe around people, for your safety, for public safety, and for your dogs safety. If your dog cannot walk without biting, you probably shouldn't own a dog. That's literally the bare minimum. Bonus points if you train them to behave well around other animals such as wildlife.
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u/SpaceCreams 23h ago
Leashes and harnesses are supposed to control that problem already, atleast if it’s in the hands of someone who cares, but if they pay enough attention to that already then their dog probably doesn’t bite in the first place
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u/AmericanHistoryXX 22h ago
Have you considered how your proposal will affect people who have dogs in part for their own protection? Why should they have to be more scared because of your fear of dogs? A muzzled dog can't protect you from an assailant, and can't deter assailants effectively.
Leashes are sufficient control for dogs and are mandated by law in many areas. Just don't get within the dog's leash space and the problem is solved. Also, you absolutely can know if a dog is aggressive.
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u/Audio-Starshine 22h ago
To be fair, you shouldn't have a dog in public that you aren't physically capable of restraining on the leash, and no one should be close enough to your dog to get bitten unless you've given them permission and know that your dog is comfortable, but given the number of times someone has trespassed onto my property to pet my dog, despite signs saying not to, you have to account for stupid people, especially in public. I don't see anything wrong with a properly fitted muzzle.
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u/DrewbearSCP 22h ago
If you look at the actual numbers, small dogs are FAR more likely to attack & do damage than medium or large dogs. Many smaller breeds are by nature very aggressive & people generally dismiss small dogs as being a threat because, well, they’re small. But, for instance, chihuahuas are the single most likely breed to attack unprovoked.
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u/The_Octonion 22h ago
I think muzzles should only be for aggressive individual dogs. But I would support ownership of large or challenging/risky medium breeds requiring a license. You get a license by raising a (smaller or safer) dog that is sociable around humans and other dogs. If a dog you own ever bites someone, you lose your dog license for life. Something like that.
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u/Africa1By1Toto 1d ago
daring unpopular opinion. what is this the 4th post about animals within the hour?
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u/MaxwellSlvrHmr 23h ago
You know that people are violent to other people way more often than dogs are right? Should we all be in handcuffs because we may hurt someone?
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u/Lucyyyyyy_K 23h ago
Humans know law exists.
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u/MaxwellSlvrHmr 23h ago
Humans break laws all the time. You cant truly know if the next person you see on the street will attack you or not.
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u/Lucyyyyyy_K 23h ago
But there is no solution to that. There is one to dogs.
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u/MaxwellSlvrHmr 19h ago
The solution to that is you realize that not every human is going to hurt you.
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u/Dull-Geologist-8204 23h ago
Not every owner thinks their dog is harmless. I had a pit mix who had been horribly abused and left to starve. Trust me when I say she was more scared of you then you of her. I have never seen another dog do this but when strangers were around she would get behind me and shove her body into the back of my legs and physically shake. She was also oddly very protective of me.
I was super careful with her both for the safety of others and her own safety. I knew if anything happened even if it was the other person's fault she would probably be put down. We did have one close call because my friend was an idiot. He thought he would scare me one day. I was up on my computer listening to music. She had been laying on my feet when she got up and walked over to the top of the stairs and growled showing teeth then played down and tagged her tail happy. I walk over to see what was going on and there is my friend frozen in place looking like he was about to piss himself. He came real close to getting bit/mauled. Actually up until that happened I just assumed if someone broke in she would run and hide or at least get behind and shake but apparently she found her courage real quick when she thought I was in danger. Nobody ever pulled anything like that again.
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u/DrippingWithRabies 22h ago
You need to address your fear and learn to interact with dogs in a safe way. Can a dog attack you? Yes. So can a person. Or a house cat. Or a wild animal. The overwhelming majority of pet dogs are not going to attack you. Dogs are the result of 100,000 years of selective breeding for companionship. They innately see us as friends and companions. Sorry you've had bad experiences with bad pet owners in the past.
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u/Particular_Meet_9333 21h ago
I completely agree all it takes for any dog to attack is a kid accidentally looking them in the eyes too long and the owner loosing control of the leash.
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u/la__polilla 1d ago
Your inability to understand a dog's body language d9es not mean a dog is inherently dangerous.
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u/gatlaw8008 1d ago
I promise that dogs are way, way less likely to randomly injure you than many other things you encounter without comment on a daily basis.
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u/UnagiDoom 23h ago
Muzzles should be more common place, and we as a society should be more understanding that they’re not a signal to everyone that the dog is automatically aggressive. There’s plenty of other reasons to muzzle your dog. Not that muzzling just because your dog is reactive (and being actively trained) or dog aggressive isn’t valid.
“Dogs can sense” you’re scared of them probably more because you’re acting like a freak in public and freaking them out.
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u/honeybeesuke 23h ago
Why only big dogs? Some of the most aggressive dogs I know are tiny and some of the most gentle are big. Making it sized based is stupid.
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u/Corevus 23h ago
How do you define "big"? And how do you expect this to be enforced? Should cops walk around with a scale and weigh every dog without a muzzle? Or a tape measure?
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u/BarleyWineIsTheBest 21h ago
Right, this would just slap an extra fine on top of owners when there has been an incident, it would not be proactively enforced. But by the time there is an incident there are already much bigger problems than breaking some minor law, like the liability for personal injury.
It is a completely useless idea.
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u/United_Scallion7690 23h ago
i’m also scared of clowns, should we lock all of them up too?
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u/Lucyyyyyy_K 23h ago
Being scared of clowns doesn't make clowns attack you.
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u/United_Scallion7690 23h ago
that wholly depends on the clown, much like it depends on the dog
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u/Lucyyyyyy_K 23h ago
Is there any case of a clown attacking someone because they were afraid?
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u/undercaffeinatedcrow 21h ago
One could argue John Wayne Gacy. Not exactly a good argument when killer clowns do exist. He seemed all friendly too, until it was time to see his magic tricks.
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u/therealzist 23h ago
Domesticated dogs are not violent by nature towards humans. Stop make general assumptions.
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u/EnbyZebra 22h ago
Dude, especially looking at your other comments, I think you need some therapy and Buspirone, you have a phobia but also a generalized anxiety issue. I have crippling anxiety too, I know how awful it was to live life untreated. Life is so much more enjoyable now than it was before because I am not anxious to the point of almost vomiting just because I had to go get groceries.
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u/Cheerio_Wolf 1d ago
If you get my big dog to bite you, you’re gonna catch hell from me because it means you did terrible things to him.
Maybe work on your phobias personally instead of trying to make everyone adapt to you.
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u/Lucyyyyyy_K 1d ago
Victim Blaming
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u/heaviestmatter- 1d ago
You‘re not a victim - you‘re imagining being one and making it other people’s problem.
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u/Cheerio_Wolf 1d ago
Stating your have to go so far as to torture my dog to get him to bite you is victim blaming? Ok bud. Take your meds.
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u/Lucyyyyyy_K 1d ago
Blaming someone who is bitten by a dog is victim blaming.
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u/Cheerio_Wolf 1d ago
Are you stupid or something?
It can be a person’s fault they got bitten by a dog.
If they are beating a dog with a stick they can’t go shocked pikachu face the dog defends itself.
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u/froction 23h ago
People who are scared of dogs should just go out in public wearing bite-proof armor. Don't make your fear someone else's problem.
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u/Lucyyyyyy_K 23h ago
Don't make your pet someone elses problem.
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u/froction 23h ago
The problem is your fear, which is your responsibility.
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u/Lucyyyyyy_K 23h ago
Pets are the owners responsibility.
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u/froction 22h ago
Correct. Fear of pets is the fearful's responsibility.
What if I'm fearful of people who are afraid of dogs? Like just the sight of them causes me to panic. Are you going to wear something to shield your frightened visage from my sight?
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u/Lucyyyyyy_K 22h ago
This doesn't exist
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u/froction 22h ago
Neither does dogs attacking you because you're scared, so I thought we were using our imaginations in this thread?
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u/ifallallthetime 23h ago
You shouldn’t be scared of dogs. That’s a you problem.
Also breed matters more than size
A Golden Retriever is a “big dog,” but they’re more harmless than some little dogs
If we’re talking about Brazilian Mastiffs or Pits then you may have a slight point, but there’s more dog owners than people scared of dogs so we’re not going to harm our dogs to make broken people feel better
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u/Kinderjohren 23h ago
If I can't handle opinion shared on Reddit that doesn't and won't affect my reality, I shouldn't have a dog? Does it even make sens to be fair?
Why the size, not statistically proven agressive tendencies? I'm not opposed to such measures in very radical cases, if it's one of the consequences of the ban on breeding dogs trained for illegal fighting, but the correlation between size and aggression simply hasn't been proven. Labs and Golden Retrievers are very well-known, typically gentle breeds.
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u/Corevus 22h ago
Peanuts aren't necessary, and people die from them so maybe they should be banned? It would save more people than requiring a muzzle on every dog of unspecified size.
Or maybe accept that some risks are necessary in a free society because the alternative is banning everything and being completely controlled
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u/Lucyyyyyy_K 22h ago
Unironically, banning peanuts might be not that bad of an idea. Like, who really needs them?
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u/Corevus 20h ago
My partner, brother, mother, and childhood friend all had severe peanut allergies. To me, sunflower seeds taste so similar without the allergies, and sunbutter is an expensive but delicious alternative. It surprises me that it's not more popular with how common nut allergies are. I see a lot of almond alternatives, but many people are also allergic to those! If sunflower because a more mainstream, i think that would be really good
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u/TwoIdleHands 22h ago
Huh? Just because a dog is large doesn’t mean they are aggressive. All dogs should be leashed and under owner control in public. All reactive dogs should be muzzled/restrained for public safety/their own safety in public. This isn’t a big dog thing.
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u/Effective_Arm_5832 22h ago
There are small pitbulls that are a menace and big golden retreivers that are totally fine. I think you just need to make pitbulls and related breeds illegal.
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u/Barcode_Griller 22h ago
I have a 170lbs Newfoundland. I'm not even sure that breed is even capable of hurting a human. He's extremely comfortable around strangers. You think I should have to muzzle him???
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u/WorryTurbulent3924 21h ago
I've been bitten by a dog 4 times in my life and none of them were over 30 pounds. So theres that. It sounds like you're just afraid of big dogs.
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u/whyimhere3015 21h ago
Only dogs that have ever nipped at me are small dogs. Toy little shits that are never disciplined because their owner thinks it’s a child. Larger dogs are trained, small dogs should be muzzled. The opposite of what you said, but you posted here so you know you are wrong anyway.
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u/Resident_Pie 20h ago
Depends much more on the breed. A Saint Bernard? A Golden Retriever? A collie? Don't bother.
A pit bull is much smaller but much more dangerous. They should be banned and basically all sterilized, only a tiny number remaining for perhaps historical purposes.
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u/Fit-Rhubarb-7820 20h ago
Agreed.
Currently pet sitting 16 animals, including two dogs, one big dog. It's some sort of mastiff crossed with a poodle? Bear got a haircut, he's a lazy shaggy dog, and he's generally low effort, except he farts :(
Had my friend over the other day, she likes dogs. We got back from dinner and I wasn't sure where the dog was but she found bear first and I was 100% aware that my friend, a tiny itty bitty lady, could 100% get mauled randomly, even though bear already met her, and this also goes for me.
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u/Funexamination 20h ago
Logically I don’t see why you’re wrong. We can blame bad dog owners but they WILL always exist. Muzzling prevents the dog from physically biting, which eliminates biting
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u/CheesyRomantic 20h ago
I feel if this rule is in place, the rules should apply to all sized dogs.
I don't personally have any negative experiences with dogs biting me, but of all the dog owners I know its mostly the small dogs that were "nippy".
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u/scissorn69 20h ago
I've never had problems with any large dogs. It's (some of) the very small ones that are loud, aggressive, and annoying.
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u/Strong-Platform786 20h ago
IDK any one that has been bitten by a big dog. A little yippy one, now that's a different story
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u/Sarcastic_Rocket 19h ago
To summarize the comments for anyone coming in. OP is deathly afraid of dogs. OP believes that dogs can sense fear. OP believes it is physically impossible for them to not appear to be afraid. OP is not looking to change or fix the fear. OP wants the entire world to fit to them. OP thinks all dogs can lash out regardless if they are specialized training like seeing eye dogs or military dogs. OP thinks that a majority of all dogs have 0 training, no potty training, no leash training, nothing.
There are genuine conversations about owning dogs, training them, and how society deals with it. OP is not concerned with any of that and just wants all dogs to be muzzled in public.
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u/Lucyyyyyy_K 19h ago
What's your problem?
OP is deathly afraid of dogs.
Not true.
OP believes it is physically impossible for them to not appear to be afraid.
To dogs.
OP wants the entire world to fit to them.
Bullshit. So do dog owners.
OP thinks all dogs can lash out regardless if they are specialized training like seeing eye dogs or military dogs.
I never said that about specialized training dogs, where have you even got that from?
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u/Sarcastic_Rocket 19h ago
Not true.
True, because of the next thing I said, and you agree
To dogs
I said that you find it physically impossible to not seem scared around dogs, you saying this is in agreement. So you are afraid of dogs, if you weren't this post, the comments, and this comment specifically would make zero sense.
Bullshit. So do dog owners.
Nobody is forcing you to be around dogs, this post is you wishing you could force all dog owners to muzzle dogs.
I never said that about specialized training dogs, where have you even got that from?
In your main post you say "you never know" referring to all dogs being trained. This is a blanket statement about all dogs, specialized trained dogs fit that.
What's your problem?
I have lots of them, but whining on the Internet, refusing to change, and wanting the world to cater to me isn't one
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u/Lucyyyyyy_K 19h ago
Nobody is forcing you to be around dogs
Existing in society puts you in the vicinity of dogs.
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u/Constant-Pension-258 17h ago
If you're going to be an annoying cunt and take your dog into Walmart or Target, I agree with OP.
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u/ToggleMoreOptions 21h ago
I mean if you're terrified of leaving your house over irresponsible dog owners, just say that
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u/Cicada7Song 21h ago
So you want to live in an authoritarian regime? If all big dogs should only be allowed in public with a muzzle to prevent them from biting, would you also say that all large men should only be allowed in public with shackles to prevent them from punching people? Would you say that people must have their fingernails cut short to prevent them from scratching each other? I would hope not. Yes, the world could be made a whole lot safer by sacrificing a whole lot of personal freedoms, but it’s not worth it. Each dog is the individual responsibility of its owner. If a dog owner knows their dog is trained well, they can choose to trust that training. If a dog owner is less confident in that training, they can take extra precautions or be willing to accept the consequences of not taking the precautions. It should still be the dog owner’s choice.
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u/Lucyyyyyy_K 21h ago
Humans know that their actions against others have consequences, dogs don't.
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u/Cicada7Song 21h ago
Yes. This includes the humans who are responsible for the dogs. If I take my dog to the park, I know that I am responsible for her. I keep her leashed and harnessed because I know that if I let her off leash and she gets hit by a car, it would be my fault.
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u/Complex-Key918 21h ago
Why stop there, why not mandate that everyone must wrap themselves in Bubble wrap and wear a helmet before leaving the house?
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u/Mudslingshot 20h ago
If you're so afraid of dogs that you act in a way that antagonizes the dog into biting you, I don't think you should be allowed in public .... After all, what would happen if you decide you're afraid of a specific person? Would you run around then screaming then and hitting them? Because that's what you have to do to get a stranger dog to bite you
If that's happening enough in your life that you made this post, is seriously examine what you're doing to strange dogs and why, and try to replace what you're doing with "nothing"
Because dogs don't bite for no reason
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