It may be a reason beyond the understanding of fair-weather-every -4-years-out-of-the- woodworks soccer fans, but it is a reason nonetheless. Anyone who’s been watching the World Cup for a long time now could tell you: You DON’T want to be 4th place.

4th place is the biggest loser of the tournament. To carry the spotlight and attention with 3 with other teams for most of the tournament, only to bow out empty handed with that same spotlight on you is massive insult to injury.

When a dark horse team plays in it, it’s fulfilling to see them walk away with recognizable hardware for their efforts. When two known powerhouses countries face off in it, it’s absolutely a matter of pride.

People act like these games are 1-0 bores- they are not! They are anything but that! We get plenty of chaos and late game heroics in third place matches. The teams historically DO go out and try. It’s a completely false stigma that nobody is actually going to try. Literally go back and watch some of these games. Use your eyes if not your brain.

I’ve seen some terrible takes throughout this entire WC on this subreddit but this takes the cake for me. Some of y’all don’t clap for third place at the Olympics either huh.

I want to start off by saying Messi is the greatest of all time. He’s won everything there is to win, he’s broken countless records, and still doing what he does at 39 is absolutely incredible. BUT… I personally think the hype is going a bit too far in the sense of ballon d’or rankings. There’s countless of posts online projecting Messi to win the ballon d’or if he wins the world cup, and many people are actually agreeing with it. I personally think that’s insanely disrespectful, and if Argentina wins the world cup and messi gets awarded the ballon d’or, the award has lost much of its credibility. Don’t get me wrong, winning the world cup is the most prestigious award in all of football, but it is so disrespectful to forget the entire past season just because of who won it.

Messi has had a phenomenal world cup, and if he wins it, it would be a perfect way to end off an incredible career. Golden boot, player of the tournament, and back to back victories would be absolutely unreal. However, I think it’s insane to forget players like Kane, Dembele, Olise, and Yamal who have accomplished so much, just for their efforts to be ignored because of who won the world cup. Messi has had a really good season with inter miami, but the MLS is nowhere near Europe. Kane also had a really good world cup campaign scoring 6 goals and 1 assist in 7 games, but nobody seems to care because it is being overshadowed by Messi’s campaign. It almost seems like this incredible performance is actually HURTING his chances at winning, just because they lost in the semis. I think undoubtedly the ballon d’or should go to him or Yamal depending on the results of the final. If all it took to win the ballon d’or was to have a good world cup campaign, why even try domestically? What are the top 5 leagues and the UCL good for in terms of ballon d’or ranking? Why not move to lower competitive leagues to farm stats and focus on having a solid world cup instead?

Messi carrying argentina to another back to back world cup trophy is incredible and deserves all the respect it gets, and hey i would say he’s definitely a top 5 contender for the ballon dor because of the campaign he’s displayed, but to actually win it? I think that’s too far. It’s completely unfair for the players who consistently played elite football at high levels for an entire season to be overshadowed by 8 games. Kane didn’t spend the entire season being consistent and scoring 70+ goals just for people to forget about him and say he doesn’t deserve it because he “ghosted” against Argentina. There is absolutely no way a single game should overshadow an entire season of hard work and consistent, elite football.

I think there’s a lot of recency bias going on. If at the end of the UCL final you were asked “should Messi win the ballon d’or if he wins the world cup?” what would your answer be? what if you were asked the same question but about Ronaldo instead? I think it goes to show how recency bias is swaying peoples opinions and making everyone forget about the incredible season these players had.

That’s just my take but I’m interested in hearing what other people think

If Argentina wins the World Cup:

"Rigged." "VARgentina." "FIFA wanted Messi." "Referee bought." "Corruption." "Robbed." Insert conspiracy theory here.

If Argentina loses:

"Messi is finished." "Argentina are washed." "Football won." "Justice served." "Karma." "Finally exposed."

So... what's actually the favorable outcome for them? Feels like they're getting cooked either way. 😂

They've been absolutely dominant at every level and have shown basically no weaknesses. They've only allowed a single goal the entire tournament with an XG% allowed never exceeding 1 against any single opponent, averaging a ridiculous 0.3 XG% allowed allowed per game and it's not like they're playing deadbeats either shutting down France's explosive offense completely as well as Portugals and Belgiums. It's crazy how they always seem to get short changed because at what does eveyone playing bad against you become your cause?

Not only that but they've yet to trail at all in knockouts, as in they haven't trailed for a single second but here's the crazy thing in all of it, they've been playing exactly as expected on offense as well so it's not like they're getting flukey goals at the last second to save their bacon either with 12 XGs and you guessed it they've scored 13 goals. They're coming in fresher than Argentina having played less time than them on the pitch while having 1 more rest day.

They've forced the most turnovers in the tournament as well with 252 have the highest possesion % (*4 games or more) at a ridiculous 65%. Other than Messi magic I can't think of a single stat that would make me think this is Argentinas game to lose which is what the entire media seems to be parroting rn

Might be a dumb question, but I was wondering if Messi is fitted to play in Barcelona like the old days. Would his performance be as good?

Edit: I'm taking in a hypothetical setup, I'm not saying he should go and play for Barca, there are probably a million reasons why that could not be of his interest (money, family, personal preference). I was just asking if he could perform in a competitive league.

Should Pickford retire?

Anyone who says the match doesnt matter is a narrow-minded elitist asshole. Imagine being the first english team to take home a medal. They would, and should, be lauded as heroes.

For some reason the american capitalism think of "2nd place is 1st loser" has seeped into sports and i hate every second of it.

I was reading this frankly astonishing post. Cricket has third place playoff but aside from that I sympathise with the emotional drain and how their hearts really can't be in the match and I came up with a solution, they could conspire to draw. Wait, hear me out...

Because both teams are have great players they could put on an exhibition match as it were without worrying about winning or losing but in stead to play beautiful football and each side would aim to do this. There can still be a legitimate winner because by conspiring for the draw for the sake of the football would mean when it came to penalties that would be legit, so they'd only really have to put their emotions into that small bit.

what do you think?

That would solve the question of near telepathic understanding that clubs players have and national teams usually lack.

Wouldn’t that team consistently destroy any national team opposition?

Hypothetically how much would it cost and would there be any challenge in achieving this if money was not an issue? I assume they would still do well in the league right? Would you get behind that team… if let’s say Musk started it? Not many people would have the funds…

Barcelona are already doing that “organically” with 8 players in the national team.

I've watched many match analyses, and everyone's criticizing Tuchel. I think that's just hindsight. It's obvious that before Tuchel's substitutions, the England players were already intimidated by Argentina's momentum, spontaneously retreating to defend. Coupled with exhaustion and England's history of faltering in crucial moments of major tournaments, and considering there was still half an hour left in the game, Tuchel's decision to substitute defensive players was reasonable. Given England's strength, it's difficult to withstand Argentina's massive counter-attacks while also launching effective counter-attacks. Without strengthening their defense, they probably would have conceded a goal much earlier. Criticism of Tuchel should also focus on his inadequate defensive arrangements; he neglected to defend against long-range shots from outside the box, and even his crosses weren't properly defended. Okay, but that's also because they had Messi on the other side. Against any other team, they could have held on. English fans and media keep criticizing Tuchel, but what they should really be thinking about is why their players have such weak willpower and are so mentally fragile. They've changed so many coaches, yet the same problem persists, and they're still blaming the coach—it's quite ridiculous. This is actually related to the culture of praising players in British football; after all, praising players generates traffic and value. So the fault definitely isn't with the players, it's always the coach's. The British know how to manage a league, but applying the same approach to the national team will inevitably lead to consistently missing the point and failing to achieve a breakthrough.

Pretty on brand really.

I'm very well versed in Argentine football and its people—from the highest echelons of society to the very lowest. And they all share one thing in common: they consider football one of the most important things in their lives.

For the commoner especially, when this is all you have to live for, nothing else matters. You will do just about anything for that win. This has been true throughout their footballing history—from the Racing players who used needles to poke Celtic F.C. players mid-game during the 1967 Intercontinental Cup while spitting at them, to the countless brawls they provoke and the massive team fights they start after a loss. These people will do anything.

So after losing three consecutive finals, 2 Copa Américas to Chile and the 2014 final against Germany, Messi retired from the national team on June 26, 2016. He did so, in part, because of the relentless harassment and attacks from the Argentine media and his own countrymen.

Before this, Messi was considered a player who relied solely on his footballing skill—because that was all he needed. Fair play was his image. He was never the trash talker, never the fouler, never the dirty player.

But that didn't fit the Argentine way. A couple of months after announcing his return, something had changed. Messi came back a different man. The qualities we all knew and loved him for were no more. In their place stood a trash talker, a fouler, a "Hand of God" player (2022 and 2026). He had become almost unrecognizable to those of us who adored him at Barcelona. One thing, however, remained untouched: his footballing gift.

Messi, now playing the Argentine way, is what most Argentines truly adore about him. Maradona before him always played this way, and it elevated him to godlike status.

Another player comes to mind who personifies what Messi used to be: Gabriel Batistuta. Batistuta was a legendary figure, yet most Argentines will dismiss him for two reasons. First, he switched club sides to a rival team (River Plate to Boca Juniors). Second, he wasn't a trash talker or a dirty player. He was a stand-up guy both on and off the field. When he retired, he publicly announced that he was leaving the world of football altogether and wanted nothing more to do with it. He had nothing but negative things to say about the professional sport from the perspective of his own life and career. Most historians will agree—it wasn't that he hated the sport itself, but rather the Argentine football culture behind it, and there is plenty to hate. He never went public to speak about the culture, but it was obvious.

So you could say there were two Messis: pre-2016 retirement and post. The Batistuta Messi, and then the Maradona Messi. We are now seeing the new iteration—the "Hand of God" Argentine player who plays as if life depends on it. With the trash talk and the dirty play, they give it everything they've got.

I'm watching old games with the Brazilian Golden Squad (Ronaldinho, Ronaldo, Rivaldo), and then I'm watching some of Zinedine Zidane's, the old Italy Golden Squad too, and England's Golden Squad. I realised that all of these teams played in the 2000s and early 2010s, and the fucking standard of play is just phenomenal. The kind of tricks and shots from free kicks, dribbles, and passes are just unbelievable. I was recently rewatching some of those FIFA's best goals of this tournament so far.

By the way, I'm not just talking about the World Cup. I'm talking about club football, I watch all of it, because the same players who are top two clubs are top in the World Cup anyway. I'm not seeing many spectacular players at all anymore, and no one, not even a 29-year-old Messi, is still leagues above everyone else. I'm almost sure this standard has gone down, but why has it gone down? Is it just a phase, or is it that tactics, skills, or raw talent aren't being rewarded anymore? What's been happening?

It could just be nostagia, but the highlight reels from that era look sooooooo much better than the modern day highlight reels.

If both 2nd and 3rd place win and lose to the same teams in semis/finals/play offs then what makes 2nd place better? For example, in the 2022 world cup, France beat Morocco before losing to Argentina, getting them in second place, however at the same time, Croatia lost to Argentina before beating Morocco, getting them below France despite basically getting the same result as them. Why should 2nd place better held above 3rd?

Argentina feels on top of the world. They're on the precipice of a fourth consecutive major tournament victory. They find new dramatic ways to snatch victory in seemingly every game and the team has truly been the embodiment of "they just know how to win".

But not long ago that wasn't the case.

Think back to July 2019. Argentina has just been eliminated 2-0 by Brazil from Copa América. This marked 26 years since they last won a Copa and 33 years since they'd won a World Cup. The year prior featured a disastrous 2018 World Cup performance in Russia where they drew with Iceland, got battered by Croatia, and were bounced by France in a rather flattering 4-3 Round of 16 match. This came on the back of two consecutive Copa América final losses (that feels a long time ago doesn't it Chile), heartbreak in the 2014 WC final, a demoralizing 4-0 quarterfinal against Germany, and plenty of other tournament losses in the 2000's. After a decade and a half of international failures, there was serious concern that Messi would retire without a major tournament victory.

Wow did that narrative change.

What are other national teams that so abruptly changed the narrative surrounding the team? Spain of the late 2000's seems like another obvious example.

I've been really enjoying watching football. Like anything else, I'm also starting to see the issues people are having with the game, especially from a business standpoint. I recently saw a video of people upset that they are planning for a 30 min break during the finals. Also have learned that people prefer watching on Telemundo to avoid the ads and boring commentary of the other network. I had a fleeting question I wanted to ask. Do you think it's best football doesn't get popular in the USA since it will likely result in more stoppage of play to allow for advertisements and make the rich get richer, taking away the established culture of football from the players and fans?

There have obviously been late goals, comebacks, shocks and loads of drama, but I still feel like it’s been missing genuinely great games between two evenly matched teams.

By “great,” I don’t just mean a dramatic finish. I mean a match where both sides attack, compete for control, create chances and look capable of winning throughout.

In previous World Cups, there always seemed to be four or five elite teams capable of producing those intense, high-quality games against each other. I haven’t really felt that this time.

Even in the knockout stage, only one match so far has finished 0–0 after extra time and gone to penalties. That doesn’t necessarily mean the matches have been poor, but it does feel like there have been fewer tight battles between teams of similar quality.

Argentina’s games have had plenty of late drama, but most of their opponents have defended very deep and tried to survive. Cape Verde were probably the main exception because they played bravely and genuinely tried to challenge them.

Maybe Belgium–Senegal was one of the better examples, but I might be forgetting others. Which matches did you find exciting from start to finish, with both teams putting up an equal fight?

Tuchel dropped the ball tactically; he has been heavily criticized and deservedly so. But when you look at this current England squad, it does not have many world class players compared to teams that won the WC in the last 20-25 years.

France 98 was loaded, Brazil 2002 was unplayable, Itay 2006 was legendary team, Spain 2010 aka Barcelona 08-10, Germany 2014, Germany squad had one of the best midfielders and supreme striker in Klose, 2018 France, team brought back sexy football, 2022 Argentina led by the goat Messi and Di Maria

This current England team, outside Kane and Jude and maybe Saka does not have world class players or fire power to deliver the world cup. Yes, Tuchel messed up but there are moments in games were world class players deliver a moment of brilliance to score a goal out of nothing or make a play, pass to change the game. I personally do not see players who can do that in the England squad beside the players mentioned

Edit: since many ppl are still talking about yesterday's game and i am talking about talent level and game changers beside Kane and Jude

How does this current England team rank to previous WC winners?

I am ready to get this party started.

It seems like there's a lot of worrying cracks for South America looking forward.

Brazil still produces stars, but hasn't produced a team capable of winning since 2014 (and we all know how that WC went for them). Basically every attack from Argentina in the knockouts has been routed through Messi, and the rest of their midfield and attack skews old. Colombia is at the tail end of a golden generation, while Chile and Uruguay's golden generation is long past. Ecuador is the only youthful team in the continent.

Europe's youth development seems unassailable at this point, with African diaspora players benefiting from that network. Meanwhile it seems like youth development in the Americas is falling further and further behind, and their squads are much older than the European ones as they're relying on older talent that's already been through European club competitions.

For their most recent matchups, this is how many players 25 years old or younger were on the pitch over the course of the game:

Ecuador: 9

Germany: 7

Netherlands: 7

England: 6 (Gordon, Bellingham, Rogers, Anderson, Spence, O'Reilly)

France: 6

Brazil: 5

Spain: 5

Switzerland: 4

Argentina: 2 (Simeone and Fernandez)

Colombia: 1

Uruguay: 1

In four years, these players like Bellingham, Lamal, Cubarsi, Haaland, Doue and Olise are going to get better. Who will Argentina have? Let alone Uruguay or Colombia.

title

To me vuvuzela was peak annoyance.

Let's say Argentina wins back to back World Cups. What do you guys think of the prospects of Messi going for three in a row in 2030? He already basically walks around the pitch for like 50% of the game. The skill level will always be there and sports science has advanced so much. For Argentina there ain't another Messi walking through that door.

This is more of a cultural post for those who want to know a little more about how we Argentines process these emotions, from the longest drought to absolute glory.

The song I posted is called "No Me Arrepiento de Este Amor" (I do not regret this love), originally by one of Argentina's greatest cumbia singers, Gilda, whose life was cut short in 1996 by a horrific traffic accident, and covered by Argentina's famed punk band Attaque 77.

The current Argentine fan song for the 2026 edition of the World Cup is based on the rhythm of the song and is a fantastic rendition, merging digestible and easy to learn lyrics to one of the most memorable songs ever put to music.

The lyrics of the original are very much in tune with our national sentiment when it comes to the Albiceleste:

No me arrepiento de este amor,

Aunque me cueste el corazón,

Amar es un milagro y yo te amé,

Como nunca jamás lo imaginé,

Translation:

I do not regret this love,

Even if it costs me my heart,

Loving is a miracle and I've loved you,

In a way I would have never imagined,

Anyways, I wanted to write this to sort of move away from the drama and vitriol of the current games and do something positive.

Does your country have something similar?