Backrooms Devs Reportedly Hit With Copyright Claims From A24

[u/Dycon67]

https://kotaku.com/backrooms-a24-copyright-strikes-kane-parsons-2000716667

[u/mabdog420]

This is stupid.

Backrooms is an urban legend. They don't own it. Kane parsons didn't invent it.

If anything the games and other media that came before should sue them.

But really nobody should be suing anyone.

[u/Anustart2023-01 → u/mabdog420]

If anything the games and other media that came before should sue them.

If I had billions this is the kind of shit I'd fund. Imagine the shitshow that would ensue if every 4chan shitposter came out of the woodwork to sue A24.

[u/ComradeJohnS → u/Anustart2023-01]

the problem with nice people having billions and helping others is that they need to be fucked in the head to even accumulate 1 billion dollars, so they won’t be nice.

its a paradox.

[u/porpoiseslayer → u/ComradeJohnS]

Speak for yourself. I’m gonna work 1000x harder and win a few lotteries to become the first ethical billionaire

[u/needlestack → u/porpoiseslayer]

You'll never be a billionaire with that approach. Working harder? Come on. Elon spends most of his time griping on Twitter. The way you become a billionaire is by taking over a company, granting yourself tons of equity, and underpaying everyone.

[u/ShallowBasketcase → u/needlestack]

The way to become a billionaire is the be born a multi-millionaire half a century ago.

[u/Turbogoblin999 → u/ComradeJohnS]

Or insanely lucky and win things like bets, the lottery, scratch off tickets...

[u/EatABag-o-Dicks → u/Anustart2023-01]

The day they start making movies about reddit lore, I'm gonna commit hari-kari.

We don't need movies about cumboxes, removing cylinders without damaging the stuck contents, shittymorphs, not knowing what potatos are, banana for scale, or the perfect 5 out of 7.

[u/imightwin → u/EatABag-o-Dicks]

I was with you until you said no shittymorphs. A movie made about u/shittymorph would be fantiastic

[u/EatABag-o-Dicks → u/imightwin]

Yeah but that other morph book would sue, and I didn't wanna station u/shittymorph with having to deal with that shit.

[u/imightwin → u/EatABag-o-Dicks]

That's very true, but now I'm wanting a doc about u/shittymorph life and years on reddit lol. If he ever did a mini doc about his life and his legendary reddit account it would be a great watch

[u/IAmNotABabyElephant → u/EatABag-o-Dicks]

I feel like this is a good test for how online you are. I'm frightened that I recognised some, relieved that it's not all of them, concerned that I can add to the list. In order:

1: Yes

2: Yes

3: Not sure

4: No

5: Yes

6: Vaguely recall

Honourable mentions:

- Poop Knife

- Unidan

- Two broken arms

[u/EatABag-o-Dicks → u/IAmNotABabyElephant]

Just look up u/shittymorph it's SFW.

The potato one is pretty benign too. Dude convinced his GFs family he didn't know what a potato was. I don't remember the last one I mentioned.

[u/MoFeaux → u/IAmNotABabyElephant]

How could you omit the jolly rancher?

[u/morgecroc → u/EatABag-o-Dicks]

I'm pretty sure the broken arm story is available on a popular video site.

[u/AlamosX → u/mabdog420]

This has been really interesting to watch unfold.

Not just for Backrooms, there's also a V/H/S SCP film coming out. If youve been following the whole SCP stuff a Russian troll tried to claim rights to the SCP trademark and it was in legal hell for a while. SCP was under a Creative Common agreement but that whole debacle just showed how frail it is when it comes to content rights. Its basically people calling dibs.

I think we're going to see more of this greedy squabbling. You just cant bank on this internet lore and expect people not to come running for a hand me out. On the flipside, there's zero reasoning to go after content creators when this shit was free and openly published for people to see. A24 is being ridiculous.

[u/Kimantha_Allerdings → u/AlamosX]

SCP is an interesting one. The self-published There Is No Anti-Memetics Division was a re-publishing of stories the author had written on the site, and were fully immersed in the lore. But when a publisher got involved, he had to re-write the entire thing to purge it of the lore and invent new lore, precisely because they were worried for the potential for lawsuits

I’m pretty sure that the guy who posted the original two Slender Man photos got quite a bit of money for the rights for the feature film, too, despite basically all of the lore coming from other sources

[u/_zeropoint_ → u/Kimantha_Allerdings]

IIRC the licensing for SCP specifies that anyone is allowed to use it, but any works that incorporate SCP elements are also available for public use, which was probably unacceptable to the publisher of Antimemetics.

[u/MakeItHappenSergant → u/mabdog420]

This reminds me of Cave Story. It's a freeware game from 2004. It had updated rereleases in 2010 and 2011, and the publisher of those versions started doing takedowns of things related to the freeware original.

[u/fukkdisshitt → u/MakeItHappenSergant]

How did they shake out? Played it way back in high school when it was newish

[u/nokinship → u/mabdog420]

They should sue them so we can get some precedent.

[u/ncopp → u/mabdog420]

This has to be covered under public domain like other urban legends. Guess now we might get some rulings that determine it

[u/TheArmoredKitten → u/mabdog420]

It's the single most "public domain" concept I've ever seen. The oldest known reference for it is an anonymous 4chan post.

[u/DrPhilihprD → u/TheArmoredKitten]

I sometimes wonder how that person must feel seeing their idea expanded on into a big ass universe and even a movie adaptation people are making millions off of

[u/RealJohnGillman → u/DrPhilihprD]

That will be Black August: he was fine with it, happy to keep the concept as essentially public domain. He’s also working on his own video game using some of the same ideas, though not specifically about the Backrooms (which he sees as being but rooms in a greater dimension called ‘the Back’, not having put all of his lore into the original post).

[u/nize426 → u/mabdog420]

To be clear, though, Kane isn't the one that's suing. In the article he says that this "shouldn't be happening" and he's going to look into it.

[u/shrek3onDVDandBluray]

So it begins. The Hollywood attempt to corporatize Internet memes. And from A24 too? How shameless.

[u/BaddyDaddy777 → u/shrek3onDVDandBluray]

Technically it’s already started, Michael Bay and his team basically control the IP for Skibidi Toilet now

[u/Baronheisenberg → u/BaddyDaddy777]

How is that even a thing? Isn't Skibidi Toilet built from Half-Life assets?

[u/Flairsurfer → u/Baronheisenberg]

I had always thought of this when the trend first started blowing up. Like doesn't Valve own every asset that they used? It's ran on SFM, no? Or at least was?

Anyways, I have yet to see any pushback about it after all this time. Curious on how far the copyright infringement could go if it went through the court system.

[u/topdangle → u/Flairsurfer]

SFM is just animation software. technically you can shove in your own models and textures as long as SFM supports it.

it definitely looked like source engine assets also used in garry's mod, though.

[u/AllShamNoWow343 → u/topdangle]

Which are ,in turn, assets from half life 2

[u/CharacterProof8731 → u/topdangle]

They are literally hl2 models

[u/Upper_Agency8333 → u/topdangle]

do you not know of the models used?

"technically animation software," yes, that is what sfm is, and it used half life models and content from valve games. Yes, you can import models, is that what they did here? no. so what is your point

[u/alex494 → u/topdangle]

It's literally G-Man's head in the toilet right

[u/IamtacoZZZ → u/Baronheisenberg]

The Red vs. Blue IP is owned rooster teeth which is a show entirely in halo. They couldn't do anything crazy without microsoft permission but they did own the ip. but i think that's a very rare situation where the show only helped the games and bungie was always pretty checked in on the community.

[u/ozzyonfire → u/IamtacoZZZ]

The good times...

[u/KerooSeta → u/ozzyonfire]

Seriously. I don't think young people will appreciate how much better the Internet was before real social media.

[u/DoctorCrook → u/ozzyonfire]

Rip astartes, If the emperor had a text to speech etc etc

[u/Lftwff → u/DoctorCrook]

They are literally making another astartes

[u/Icc0ld → u/DoctorCrook]

emperor had a text to speech

Unbelievably good. GW swooped in, scooped up a handful of decent (though I'd argue not exactly high-quality) animators to hold up the most barebones streaming service I've ever seen and in the process slammed the door shut on one of the most popular 40k creators.

[u/filthy_harold → u/Baronheisenberg]

It is but like with Fortnite, they made their own versions of the camera head and the toilet guy. You can copyright the story and characters but Valve doesn't grant licenses for using their assets in commercial works. So if the movie ever comes out, the character designs would be based on the Valve assets but not actually made from Valve assets.

[u/Codedheart → u/filthy_harold]

I read all this and then it finally clicked that there's a fucking skibidi toilet movie. Fuck me how do I unlearn that?

[u/-Patali- → u/Baronheisenberg]

A judge ruled that putting the head in the toilet made it legally distinct

[u/chaosfire235 → u/Baronheisenberg]

From my understanding, the individual assets are owned by Valve/other creators. But the final character designs of them put together are DaFuqBooms (or whoever owns the brand now). So a tv asset could be an independent artist, a Combine Mine made by someone else, and an energy sword could be ripped from a transformers game, but the bringing together of them into Titan TV Man would be a new copyrightable design.

It's not as simple obviously. If a design appears in a bigger work like a game or movie, the design would need to be tweaked rather than using exact assets. Like how for the Fortnite collab, the actual Skibidi Toilet model wasn't exactly the same.

[u/BaddyDaddy777 → u/Baronheisenberg]

Ah that’s the fun part, who knows?

[u/cineglitch → u/BaddyDaddy777]

I saw they have skibidi toys at target

[u/PipXXX → u/cineglitch]

Oh, they've been around for quite a while. I regularly see them end up in clearance aisles.

[u/cmikesell → u/PipXXX]

Those dumb unsellable toilets are great to look behind for possible hidden pokemon cards

[u/lkodl → u/cmikesell]

I think the secret to life is looking for the Pokémon cards hidden behind unsellable toilets. Figuratively speaking, of course.

[u/Joimes → u/cineglitch]

My kid use to like skibidi toilet. Not sure if it's because he's older now or that skibidi just died off after the movie announcement but I ain't seen nothing online, but I saw the toys at Walmart and my son said "skibidi isn't even cool anymore.".

[u/Shaggnutts → u/Joimes]

Random fact but they’re actually looking for a senior buyer for the section in the store because the current one is extremely late to the party on these types of things and it ends up being wasted shelf space

[u/OnCominStorm → u/Joimes]

After selling skibidi toilet to Hollywood, the creator stopped uploading to YouTube, I think he's done with the franchise

[u/saintash → u/OnCominStorm]

Yeah he made bank and quit

[u/TheArmoredKitten → u/saintash]

Take the money and run, the only appropriate strategy when you're dealing with Hollywood bloodsuckers.

[u/RealModeX86 → u/TheArmoredKitten]

It would be funny to see one of those bloodsuckers get curbstomped in court by Valve when they learn those models and textures are featured prominently in a little indie release called Half-Life 2 and try to assert a claim about it.

[u/OnCominStorm → u/saintash]

Smart man,, can't blame him.

[u/Volothos → u/OnCominStorm]

Wasn't that due to legal fuckery because of Bay? Out of the loop, apologies

[u/wrexsol → u/Joimes]

It's the age old question: was it cool or was I just young?

[u/bunsprites → u/cineglitch]

I really hated watching multiple targets slowly replace the entire pokemon section with Mr. Beast and skibidi toilet shit. And none of it sells, you could go through and leave finger trails in the dust build up. I've only ever seen that on extremely unpopular Walmart fashion dolls that tried to appeal to adult collectors with the ugliest outfits you've ever seen.

[u/exitof99 → u/BaddyDaddy777]

Steam/Value should sue them for using the Garry's Mods assets.

[u/rxsheepxr → u/exitof99]

They're gonna wait for the movie and then take 'em to the cleaners.

[u/koreanwizard → u/BaddyDaddy777]

They sat on that way too fucking long, the kids are 100 memes past that now.

[u/Yetimang → u/BaddyDaddy777]

Skibidi Toilet at least has a single clear original work with a clear author. Where copyright even attaches is a much more complicated question for Backrooms.

[u/Capital_Actuator_404 → u/BaddyDaddy777]

Thank god, I’m so glad it went away

[u/MutantCreature → u/BaddyDaddy777]

Skibidi toilet was copyrighted by the original creator though, it was within his rights to sell it to whoever he wanted. I will admit that I'm a bit confused about how all the Source assets used fit within that as an IP, but I think the designs (sans HL/Source asset use) and "premise" are what define the IP.

[u/filthy_harold → u/MutantCreature]

Right, they wouldn't be able to use the actual toilet and NPC head from Valve in the movie but they could just make their own toilet and unremarkable guy with brown hair. These two things are so generic that it would be impossible to claim IP theft. They did just that for Fortnite.

Now if the movie was using a knockoff version of Gordon Freeman wearing his iconic HEV suit singing and dancing while carrying a crowbar, that would be a different issue.

[u/Merker6 → u/shrek3onDVDandBluray]

I would hope lawyers would be lining up to represent pro bono. Seems like a pretty solid case of a company attempting to retroactively claim copyright in something in the public domain

[u/Rachet20 → u/Merker6]

More unofficially open source than public domain. No has tried to claim it before so no one has had to worry about this, there’s still no way A24 gets away with it.

[u/_PM_ME_PANGOLINS_ → u/Merker6]

I’m pretty sure it’s not public domain. A bunch of people own the copyright on the photos and writing they contributed. Whatever sites they uploaded them to will have gained various licenses over them according to their usage agreements.

[u/purplewhiteblack → u/_PM_ME_PANGOLINS_]

the photos were posted anonymously,

the text at the bottom that created the storyline was posted anonymously.

[u/Teedo4133 → u/purplewhiteblack]

Things are only in the public domain if (1) their copyright period has lapsed (steamboat willie, etc) or (2) the copyright holder has disclaimed ownership (wikimedia stuff).

Some copying may be allowed because it is a fair use.

Ideas (the idea of a weird, irregular, neverending series of rooms) are unprotectable by copyright. A different movie about a weird cluster of rooms would not violate A24’s copyright.

[u/Antrikshy → u/Teedo4133]

Small clarification: Not even all Wikimedia stuff. They allow some CC licenses, but pretty open ones.

[u/purplewhiteblack → u/Teedo4133]

Also, a lot of the Backrooms resembles A Richard Matheson Twilight Zone episode called Little Girl Lost.

Richard Matheson would write another story called Stir of Echoes about a different girl in a wall.

[u/TheDotCaptin → u/purplewhiteblack]

The original source material was.

There many additional and novel elements that were made since then by many different people.

The level, entities, agency such as ones with a name. The original characters.

[u/purplewhiteblack → u/TheDotCaptin]

As long as you're not using A-synch, and Captain Clark or any of the characters Kane Parsons created you're in your own branch copyright continuum.

If they did use those characters then A24 and Kane Parsons could sue.

Kane didn't draw much from the community.

It's like if you created new characters for Robin Hood or Aladdin. Everything is fine as long as you don't use Jafar or Jasmine. Friar Tuck and Prince John are fine, but Prince Dandylord is mine because I just made him up.

But you know what, I'm officially ceding Prince Dandylord to the public domain because let's see where this goes. and also ceding Robin Hood 2: Medieval Boogaloo

[u/ROotT → u/purplewhiteblack]

Prince Dandylord has a hapless, good-hearted right hand man named Sir Loyalstooge.

[u/Teedo4133 → u/_PM_ME_PANGOLINS_]

You are right. But likely the original 4chan post is too abstract and undefined for the poster to have a copyright interest he/she can enforce against the film.

However, if A24 Backrooms content copies specific expression from Backrooms video games or (non-Kane Parsons) short films on YouTube… A24 is likely infringing their copyrights. But this would have to be specific expression—like a specific character or a specific room with well-developed features—it could not be the copying of vibes or broad concepts alone.

Because of this, on the press tour, Kane said he had never consumed Backrooms content made by other creators. I kinda feel like he was instructed by A24 lawyers to say this. There is no way that he has never even tried his hand at any Backrooms video game.

The more interesting issue imo is trademark. I am not sure if A24 could obtain a trademark in the phrase “Backrooms.” It is likely generic because hundreds of internet users made “Backrooms” content before the movie came out.

This case has got to be one of the most interesting copyright cases in recent years. Crowd-created characters and universes are on the rise (e.g. Tung Tung Tung Sahur). It will be interesting to see how copyright law handles this.

[u/Lima__Fox → u/Teedo4133]

It’s probably also similar to when some author tried to copyright the omegaverse and even though she wasn’t the first and didn’t come up with any of the tropes that define an omegaverse fiction.

[u/shrek3onDVDandBluray → u/Merker6]

Unfortunately - somehow, in this filthy filthy world run by corporations - the corporations will probably win this.

[u/horseradix → u/shrek3onDVDandBluray]

Lots of various anonymous people, artists and photographers etc made contributions to the "internet folklore" that is the backrooms as a concept outside Kane's work and the A24 movie. Its like trying to copyright Santa claus or the lochness monster or something - the only thing that could reasonably be distinctive as IP would be the specific characters and plot and maybe certain set pieces but not the backrooms itself, that tbh is unownable.

[u/_TheTurtleBox_ → u/horseradix]

I JUST found out last week that a bunch of images and artwork I photographed / drew are now templates on r/LiminalSpace and SCP things.

I was joking / making fun of that Backrooms mod who was like "I should be credited for the backrooms movie!" on twitter and then they announced the SCP movie and I was like Oh holy shit I should unironically make a stink out of this to get a quick buck.

[u/RealJohnGillman → u/_TheTurtleBox_]

Oh, you absolutely should get in on that. A few different companies are supposedly developing SCP films, and being credited on those could be huge.

[u/tackle_bones → u/_TheTurtleBox_]

Yes. You probably should. That’s what A24 is fucking up right now. I bet they’re setting themselves up for counter suits.

[u/Ares54 → u/_TheTurtleBox_]

Honestly, do it. Anything with a budget over $1mm that's trying to make money should absolutely have people it stole from, intentionally or not, making a stink. If they're using your stuff make them pay you for it.

[u/RDandersen → u/horseradix]

Its like trying to copyright Santa claus

If you close your eyes and picture Santa Claus, chances are that you picturing a character that is copyrighted by Coca Cola, so funny example.

[u/dawgz525 → u/shrek3onDVDandBluray]

A24 has been owned by finance bros for a long time. Not sure why people think they're some art house studio

[u/Mid-CenturyBoy → u/dawgz525]

Finance peeps buy a brand and try to hide behind its goodwill to do shitty things to make money until it crmbles and then they lather, rinse, repeat. This isn't going to stop until we learn how to make these ypes of people pariahs. Like call them out on their loser behavior and make every waking moment of their lives suck because we remind them how worthless they are.

[u/7URB0 → u/Mid-CenturyBoy]

They don't care, they already know we hate them. They're already fine with surrounding themselves with nobody but soulless ghouls like themselves.

We need to start condemning people who sell out to these assholes. No more of this "get your bag" bullshit. The trust people have for you isn't a resource for you to exploit or a commodity to trade. If you make something great that a lot of people come to trust and/or rely on, and then sell it AND your fan/userbase to vampires, you're a vampire too.

Make "sellout" a slur again, instead of an aspiration.

[u/Bladelink → u/Mid-CenturyBoy]

The other thing that's been annoying me the last few years is that companies seem completely oblivious to the fact that their reputation is an asset. What a lot of these vulture MBAs are doing is basically going into a company and liquidating that good reputation. And usually for just a few dollars, relatively speaking.

[u/glamberous → u/dawgz525]

tbh first I've heard of it, I just found their films to be unique. One of the few studios who weren't doing pre-existing IP junk. But anyways, now I know~

[u/dinosaurfondue → u/glamberous]

They recently went all in on AI in a partnership with Google. They don't give a fuck about anything but how to make more money

[u/Wild_Marker → u/dinosaurfondue]

So we're going to have to start calling them AI24?

[u/Treadwheel → u/glamberous]

Important to note that most "A24 films" aren't actually made by A24, they're just distributed by A24, including most of the ones that really established their name. If you go down the list of A24 films it's pretty much a wall of "US distribution only" until they were well established.

[u/palerthanrice → u/shrek3onDVDandBluray]

People think of A24 as some small indie studio when they’re really not.

[u/pirat3hooker → u/shrek3onDVDandBluray]

Yeah unfortunately the future looks bleak for A24. From Wikipedia.

“In June 2026, following the success of Backrooms, Google announced an investment of approximately $75 million in A24 to further develop artificial intelligence (AI) tools for filmmaking. Notably, the deal does not grant Google access to A24's content library. Under the deal, A24 will work with Google's DeepMindlaboratory to develop new AI-powered workflows.”

[u/30InchSpare → u/pirat3hooker]

And they just put out Eddington which was very anti-AI, or at least nihilistically scowled super hard at AI.

[u/Freakjob_003 → u/30InchSpare]

at least nihilistically scowled super hard at AI

One of my favorite film critics, Darren Mooney, recently put out a video about The Emptiness of Modern "Eat the Rich" Cinema.

The past couple of years have seen an explosion in "eat the rich" cinema, including The Menu, Ready or Not and now How to Make a Killing; these movies appeal to a very understandable anger in the collective consciousness, but they are also very limited; they recognize a fundamentally broken system, but cannot imagine a systemic fix; in the best movies, this leads to a sort of bleak nihilism that acknowledges the uselessness of these sorts of gestures, but more often than not it feels like a placebo, refusing to address the larger systemic issues.

Definitely a worthwhile watch, as well as the rest of his work. For instance, here's his piece on The Backrooms itself, plus Obsession, and what it means for the future of Hollywood.

[u/The-MadTitan → u/shrek3onDVDandBluray]

Donald Trumps son-in-laws brother is a major investor/board member of A24 my dude, this is not a suprise.

A24 is a billion dollar, fake indie studio that people eat up.

[u/wizkidweb → u/The-MadTitan]

Donald Trumps son-in-laws brother

"Then what does that make me?"
"Absolutely nothing!"

[u/tokeroveragain → u/wizkidweb]

It sounds cheesy when you type it like that, but he is a Kushner, and the name should be synonymous with oligarchy at this point.

[u/TheBoyInTheClock → u/tokeroveragain]

Spaceballs reference

[u/ESB823 → u/TheBoyInTheClock]

We don't actually watch movies here what are you thinking

[u/gereffi → u/shrek3onDVDandBluray]

So A24 doesn’t hold the IP over all backrooms-related media, but they do hold the rights to anything made specifically in the movie they produced. Like anyone can use Snow White as a character for whatever they’d like to, but they can’t specifically use Disney’s version of the character designs.

This article doesn’t give any evidence that the removed content didn’t contain any art that riffed off of art related to the movie, so it’s hard to say if this is justified or not. We’ll have to wait and see as more information comes out.

[u/jessterswan → u/shrek3onDVDandBluray]

What else do expect from AI co conspirators?

[u/Belfetto]

Damn what is going on behind the scenes there lately?

[u/swagonflyyyy → u/Belfetto]

My take is A24 feels like they struck gold with the franchise and are trying to solidify their control over it.

[u/MalkavTheMadman → u/swagonflyyyy]

Easy to strike gold when you rob the gold vault of a communal bank.

[u/mechtaphloba → u/MalkavTheMadman]

They climbed into the public fountain to scoop up all the coins

[u/ThunderheadStudio → u/swagonflyyyy]

Fucking gross.

[u/yagirlsophie → u/Belfetto]

Squandering all good-will Speed Run

[u/Bladelink → u/yagirlsophie]

"We've accumulated a tiny bit of positive reputation. quick, liquidate it for 12 dollars immediately!!!!!!!"

• every MBA in the history of the world, apparently

[u/deezbiscuits21 → u/yagirlsophie]

Yeah I seriously hope people stop overrating this shitty corporate studio.

Maybe it used to be cool but not for a few years

[u/Quick-Bad → u/Belfetto]

You either die a hero, etc.

[u/WoodooHide69 → u/Belfetto]

Jared Kushners Brothers have pumped a lot Saudi cash into A24. Maybe that’s why.

[u/xixbia → u/Belfetto]

Money.

[u/B-BoyStance → u/xixbia]

Yeah once a Kushner got on the board I kinda figured we'd see them go downhill

[u/mrrtchbrrx → u/B-BoyStance]

Oh gross is that what happened?

[u/Joghobs → u/mrrtchbrrx]

They sold to PE

[u/Far-Advantage-2770 → u/Joghobs]

PE. Every. Fucking. Time.

Guarunteed A24 is bankrupt in 5 years.

[u/Joghobs → u/Far-Advantage-2770]

Sorry I misspoke. Apparently just a $75m AI deal with Google

[u/ddWolf_ → u/Belfetto]

Private equity. Otherwise known as the ones who should be eaten.

[u/krazyjakee → u/Belfetto]

You mean in the back rooms?

[u/TangerineChickens → u/Belfetto]

Venture Capital

[u/ennuig0]

The idea has been on the internet for years before this movie came out, this is bogus on the company’s part

A24 has really gone downhill

[u/Necessary-Duty-7952 → u/ennuig0]

I follow a podcast about video games and there's a copyright lawyer on the team and this topic specifically came up weeks ago. She said that there's no way for A24 to claim copyright because the concept and even name already existed (I don't remember the specific legal argument used). So I'd be curious to see if she talks more about it now that this has happened.

[u/filthy_harold → u/Necessary-Duty-7952]

Right, the only thing they have a legitimate claim on is anything unique to the movie like characters along with whatever else they own from the creator. This is just C&D-happy lawyers mass emailing anything that uses the name "Backrooms".

[u/crumble-bee → u/filthy_harold]

I think the argument here is likely that there are now two versions of the backrooms - one is “Kane Parson’s The Backrooms” and the other is the meme. Parson’s added just enough lore to his own original adaptation and carrying it through to this, if became his thing - if the game uses concepts or ideas from his YouTube series for example, then a24 are sort of right because they own the IP now.

Still fucking stupid.

[u/mcinthedorm → u/Necessary-Duty-7952]

MinnMaxx is the podcast for anyone interested. She’s specifically a lawyer for video games

[u/itherunner → u/Necessary-Duty-7952]

What’s the podcast?

[u/Necessary-Duty-7952 → u/itherunner]

MinnMax. I find it's a great balance between silly fun, but also serious/informative.

[u/pizzamage → u/Necessary-Duty-7952]

It's Minnmax!

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=lOL3vaHTU9U @1:26:33.

LONG, but worth on the topic.

[u/ToastGoblin22 → u/Necessary-Duty-7952]

Unfortunately in cases like this I think the goal isn’t really to ‘win’ the case in court, but instead to simply pressure the other party into compliance. Not many of these low budget indie developers will have the resources needed to fight this case in court.

[u/AvailableReporter484 → u/ennuig0]

Yeah how tf you gonna copyright a meme that’s existed for 20 years??

I’m going to write the success kid movie and sue the baby from the picture for copyright infringement

[u/RealJohnGillman → u/AvailableReporter484]

The Backrooms was created in 2019 by the 4chan and SomethingAwful user Black August.

While Kane Parsons created his Backrooms web series in 2022: it wasn’t massively old at the time.

If anyone could try to copyright it, it would be August, but he has stated he prefers it kept public-domain.

[u/ContinuumGuy → u/RealJohnGillman]

If anyone could try to copyright it, it would be August, but he has stated he prefers it kept public-domain.

The funniest thing would be if there was a trial and they called this user up.

[u/bunsprites → u/RealJohnGillman]

Wait, like black August created specifically the original 4chan post? Has there been any proof? I've only ever seen someone claim it was them once and all they had was showing that they saved the image around or like a week before the post was made.

[u/RealJohnGillman → u/bunsprites]

That was him, yes: apparently ‘the Back’ as he called it was an idea he’d had for a while already, as part of a game he was developing, though he didn’t choose the image to go with the idea until later. Here’s one of the interviews he gave on it: apparently he still answers fan-questions when contacted via his SomethingAwful account as well, to note anyone here reading this could contact him directly too if they wanted to interview him.

[u/DeadSending → u/RealJohnGillman]

Holy shit that’d be epic if it could get some traction, him answering questions about the backrooms and A24 can go suck it

[u/elnegativo → u/RealJohnGillman]

The concept is much older than that, on the jenmifer morgue (2006) the character refer to hotelspace as the liminal space thet make all hotels look the same. The backrooms is similar to that.

[u/ThePhilpa → u/AvailableReporter484]

How did you came up with 20 years

[u/Forsaken_Bridge_3934 → u/ThePhilpa]

Simple math really

2019 to 2020 = 1

2020 to 2021 = 14

2021 to 2022 = 1

2022 to 2023 = 1

2023 to 2024 = 1

2024 to 2025 = 1

2025 to 2026 = 1

=20 years

[u/ContinuumGuy → u/Forsaken_Bridge_3934]

2020 to 2021 = 14

Shit, that math checks out.

[u/Wumaduce → u/Forsaken_Bridge_3934]

Scott Steiner would like to have a word with you.

[u/jessterswan → u/Wumaduce]

At Sacerfice

[u/TateXD → u/Wumaduce]

Kurt Angle KNOWS

[u/DenseBeautiful731 → u/Forsaken_Bridge_3934]

Worthy of a Fields Medal.

Just magnificent.

[u/ReagenLamborghini → u/AvailableReporter484]

20 years? Backrooms meme originates from an image first posted to 4chan in 2018.

https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/the-backrooms

[u/Filmmagician]

The director (who's on Reddit) says this doesn't sound right and he's looking into it with A24, so that's cool to hear.

[u/Worst_Artist → u/Filmmagician]

Here’s a link with the director’s comment on this

[u/derangedkilr → u/Worst_Artist]

More comments from Kane after talking to A24

[u/ItsSansom → u/derangedkilr]

Yeah right after reading the headline I though "This doesn't sound at all like something Kane would be aligned with"

[u/mobyte → u/derangedkilr]

People love jumping to conclusions and act like every entity is one guy sitting in a box making decisions when in fact it’s a massive company with hundreds of employees (not including legal third parties and contractors).

[u/dondondorito → u/Filmmagician]

I wouldn’t be surprised if this is 100% true, and Kane Parsons will learn that big-ass companies like A24 lie and cheat wherever they think they can get away with it.

I‘m sure his handlers have been really nice to him, but that was their job. Keep the lucrative new director happy and lie to him if that makes him feel comfortable.

[u/Dycon67 → u/dondondorito]

The big issue for a24 would be if he feels he's been slighted. He'd have such a great avenue to fall back on in the industry. Fuckin Christopher Nolan's praising the dude. Another company would be salivating to get him to come work for them.

[u/Intelligent_Oil4005 → u/dondondorito]

He was already saying he wasn't fond of their AI announcement. Kane knows what's up

[u/Jackoffjordan → u/dondondorito]

At the end of the day Kane is the source of this profitability. If Kane walks, A24 potentially lose another $300M.

It'll be Nolan and WB all over again.

[u/coporate → u/Filmmagician]

This is most likely the fault of automated copyright enforcement. Some system designed to auto detect pirated versions of the movie began striking anything that resembles the film. Since it’s practically just liminal spaces, it has no way of determining what is and isn’t associated with the film.

It’s just another example of YouTube (and all social media platforms) offloading critical moderation to automated systems and like always, the public suffers while corporate gets a free pass.

[u/TheSwampThing1990]

There is a rumor about a SCP movie being made. I expect the same to happen there. No way once movies start coming out with these IP's we don't see lawyers come out to fight the little guy. I mean most people won't have the money or time to go against a studio if they said, "No. We own the SCP and that everyone owns it thing isn't going to hold up in court."

[u/BaddyDaddy777 → u/TheSwampThing1990]

Oh it’s no rumor, it’s gonna be a V\H\S movie coming out next year

[u/SandieSandwicheadman → u/BaddyDaddy777]

They announced it, but I'm iffy about it actually coming out (at least as an SPC film) - apparently no one at the SCP project was contacted about the film prior to announcement and they were all blindsided as well. As far as anyone can tell, the studio likely thought it was a public domain project like the Backrooms was and never checked that it's actually registered as a creative commons sharealike. That means if they want to they can release and sell the film with the SCP licence and established stories if they'd like, but they can't copyright it and they can't prevent it from being shared publicly. The safest option to avoid that is to just change the name and concepts and release it as an "SCP inspired" work instead, like Control did.

[u/TheSwampThing1990 → u/BaddyDaddy777]

Yeah looking it up the people own that movie is Image Nation, an Abu-Dhabi studio. I really honestly wonder what is going to happen.

I watched a video last year that said since all SCP media is open source that if Universal made a movie then people could legally pirate it and distribute themselves. I have no idea if that is true or not. How the SCP stuff actually works but I expect something like this headline in a few years. If I was part of the community I would be worried

[u/TurelSun → u/TheSwampThing1990]

Yeah, that's not true. Just because something is in the public domain or not trademarked specifically doesn't mean you can pirate and distribute works based on it. Like Cthulu is public domain and a lot of stuff gets made based on it now, but those specific works aren't just up for grabs.

[u/Coffescout → u/TurelSun]

SCP isn’t in the public domain. The SCP license states that all derivative works must agree to license themselves under CC-BY-SA which means that anyone can share, redistribute or adapt your derivative work. This is to keep the SCP Project collaborative.

”Releasing it under the CC-BY-SA license means that people will be able to copy your work wholesale, and even sell it, provided that they properly attribute you and release their work under the same license.”

The basic idea is that you are allowed to monetize things in the project, but you can’t limit others from then also monetizing what you created.

https://scp-wiki.wikidot.com/licensing-guide

[u/TurelSun → u/Coffescout]

Gotcha, yeah in that case it's not the same as what I thought the other commenter was describing.

[u/losertaser → u/Coffescout]

That is not how CC-BY-SA works. Any assets derived from SCP are under CC-BY-SA and can be legally used by other parties but source code is NOT covered by it, even if the project is based on something covered by CC-BY-SA. This is why SCP: 5K hasn’t had action against it.

[u/airfryerfuntime → u/TheSwampThing1990]

The SCP brand is more solidly 'owned' though. The wiki is licensed under creative commons, and each individual entry is owned by the author.

[u/ThirdFloorNorth → u/TheSwampThing1990]

SCP is in the Creative Commons as is, I believe, Backrooms. They can go fuck themselves.

[u/TheSwampThing1990 → u/ThirdFloorNorth]

The problem like I said is who is going to have the money or time to take that to court and prove it. I mean they will bury them

[u/agreeduponspring → u/TheSwampThing1990]

It's written fairly prominently at the bottom of the wiki page. Violation of the terms could force them into releasing the movie as CC licensed as well. I suspect they will violate the terms, everything I've heard has made it sound like the studio is being somewhat careless here, and I'd love to see it happen.

[u/Lebowquade → u/agreeduponspring]

I've met Lawrence Lessig personally, even two decades ago he saw that this shit was going to happen and started CC to combat this exact flavor of bullshit. 

They are smart lawyers over there, CC has surprisingly solid legal standing.

[u/mistermeesh]

No Backroom deals taking place, I see.

[u/WarbossTodd]

Must have been A24’s new AI lawyers.

[u/Demolitions75 → u/WarbossTodd]

Beep boop you have painted your bedroom wall yellow we will now sue

[u/PuttingInTheEffort → u/WarbossTodd]

The director of the film said it shouldn't be happening, so likely is some ai autocopyright bullshit

[u/Prathik → u/WarbossTodd]

My guess: these companies hire all these copyright lawyer like firms who are now using AI to scrape stuff over Internet or on particular websites. Unless these companies vote with their wallet and not hire these copyright companies (unlikely) it's going to get worse. The websites that are targeted like redbubble etc don't care about if the dmca is legitimate or not just that there's a chance it is. I suppose the only way to fight this is to make a ruckus and shame these big companies like what's happening now.

[u/HFwhy]

A24 is trying to tank their reputation and goodwill in record time, change my mind.

[u/Corasama → u/HFwhy]

Prtty sure they're on their way to copyright strike BlackGryphon for his Hazbin hotel music videos.

[u/MidLifeDIY]

A24 is no small indie. Not anymore. The money behind them now via investment groups is bananas. I really like some of the movies. I dig what they generally do, but this move is fucked.

[u/Ekillaa22]

How’s this work when there’s been backrooms games before the movie was a thing

[u/MyStationIsAbandoned → u/Ekillaa22]

that's the neat part. It doesn't work. Unless you have money and no one can challenge you in court because they don't have money.

[u/Phantomskyler]

Who could have seen this coming, particularly from a company that also sold out to Gen ai after a vocally anti Ai director just made them Scrooge McDuck amounts of money? 💀

[u/Dycon67 → u/Phantomskyler]

Kane Parsons has come out and said he's against this. So if they fuck up this relationship it would be one of of biggest losses in history for the studio.

[u/MissionVegetable568]

no way this is gonna fly? whats their claim? this existed for ages

[u/Madzookeeper]

Suing something that existed before your product is... Certainly a choice. Especially given that it's based on something in the public domain in the first place. So... Add A24 to the just of things not to support I guess. Not that I've watched any of their movies anyway.

[u/turb0_encapsulator]

A24 really speed ran their capitalist transition to straight up evil.

[u/metalyger]

I've seen in another post about people making merchandise have had takedown requests, and apparently the creator of the Backrooms series said he's getting involved to stop this from happening, because it's a public domain concept. But it sounds more like a meeting with A24 and their legal department is necessary.

[u/CharityDiary]

The Backrooms was never about a government cover-up conspiracy and monsters that eat people, and now A24 is going to try to monopolize it and make it that.

No thank you.

[u/tufwunder]

If anything the person who posted the image originally should be suing A24.

[u/spaceman_sloth]

A24 fell off so hard. There was a time where I was excited for any movie with their name tied to it

[u/BlitzOmatic]

Retroactive trade marking. If I had to guess this isn’t specifically for the backrooms game, it’s for all the games that get made after the popularity of the movie so they can leach revenue off those. I get it from a business side to give it a go, but this type of thing burns good will quick.

[u/rxz9000 → u/BlitzOmatic]

Trademarking only gives you a case against people using your trademark for branding etc. (within the same industry I might add).

It does absolutely nothing for previously published copyrighted works. And for future works it doesn't do anything either as long they don't feature the trademark in the name, title, etc.

[u/lasthopel → u/BlitzOmatic]

Pretty sure that is not how it works since there have been games and media about the backrooms created before the movie was even in production, they cant suddenly claim everything backrooms is theres because it never was, at most they can stop people using aspects of the film but given how the whole point of the backrooms is generic that is not going to be easy

[u/AmberDuke05]

Fuck off. Corpos just want to own what people made for free.

[u/Independent-Belt-457]

A24 did indeed fell off very hard in the last 2 years

Edit: they put Out a Statement and reversed that

[u/arc777_]

That 4chan user who made the original greentext should sue A24

[u/The-MadTitan]

When will people learn that A24 is not anything more than a billion dollar studio that looks for anyway to increase shareholder investments.

The trump ties, the AI push. They arent a studio 'for the cinephiles' like so many claim.

[u/michicago44]

Lmao absolutely pathetic

[u/banjo-kablooey]

this is simply sad and fucking pathetic