She made history as the first worlds first practicing lawyer with down syndrome

[u/toastvibes03]

[u/spotlight-app]

Mods have pinned a comment by u/sh115:

The ableist part isn’t acknowledging that some people with Down Syndrome have a level of cognitive disability that would prevent them being a lawyer. The ableist part is assuming that EVERYONE with Down syndrome has that degree of cognitive disability and that nobody with Down syndrome could ever possess the intellectual capacity to practice law.

Like pretty much every disability, Down Syndrome is a spectrum and people with the condition vary widely in terms of how they are impacted. There are recorded cases of people with Downs having normal or even above-average IQs, and there’s no reason to think those individuals couldn’t excel in a field like law given their above-average intellectual capacity. We don’t have a lot of information about this particular woman, but there’s no reason to just assume she’s incompetent or incapable of being an attorney. If she was able to complete her course work, then there’s a good chance she has a normal or above-average IQ. And if that’s the case, then she’s no different from any other lawyer.

It is ableist to rely on stereotypes and assumptions, and to let those assumptions color your perception of disabled people and what they are capable of. Nobody is asking you to hire a lawyer who has a significant cognitive disability, we’re asking you to stop assuming that this woman has a low IQ just because she has Down syndrome.

Note: ❤️

^{[What is Spotlight?](https://developers.reddit.com/apps/spotlight-app})

[u/not_suddenly_satire]

This comment section is like a battle between Old Reddit and New Reddit.

[u/DrLoomis131 → u/not_suddenly_satire]

Whichever Reddit is the funny Reddit should win lol

[u/hajnalidelfin → u/DrLoomis131]

we all know which one that is

[u/One_Order_3841 → u/hajnalidelfin]

... I'll accept the plea deal on my DUI + possession ticket, but can we move this forward for...historical reasons?

[u/Time-Sudden_Tree → u/hajnalidelfin]

2000s reddit?

[u/Handplaned → u/Time-Sudden_Tree]

2015 Reddit was awesome and everyone got so mad

[u/Time-Sudden_Tree → u/Handplaned]

Nah 2008-2010 reddit was peak. Back then narwhals and bacon still mattered. People cared about these things!

And then in late 2010, digg died and all its unwashed masses migrated here, turning reddit into the big evil beast it is today. Oh well, at least there's always Lemmy/Piefied...

[u/OpenRole → u/[deleted]]

Reddit used to be fun

[u/OpenRole → u/OpenRole]

I wish we could enhance it

[u/_ploppers_ → u/OpenRole]

With a suite of some sort.

[u/SheriffBartholomew → u/OpenRole]

There was even a third party app for Reddit called Reddit is Fun

[u/henlecilia → u/DrLoomis131]

old

[u/Strange_Lab_283 → u/not_suddenly_satire]

reddit was better before there was an official mobile app

[u/steppponme → u/Strange_Lab_283]

I'm still using my phone's web browser out of pure bitter spite.

[u/_nigerianprince → u/steppponme]

The browser is honestly better than the app

[u/Locke02 → u/[deleted]]

New Reddit is just ranked competitive morality virtue signaling.

[u/WhenMeWasAYouth → u/Locke02]

It's either that or people bitching about that.

[u/Riskybusiness622 → u/[deleted]]

Well said 

[u/RandoMcfisto → u/not_suddenly_satire]

What's the score so far?

[u/Powerful-Rub-2801]

Is she doing civil or criminal? I think the real issue is that a jury might not take her seriously.

[u/CandidatePresent6975 → u/Powerful-Rub-2801]

thankfully, like 90 percent of attorney work is not in a courtroom.

but yah, I don't disagree

[u/HibiscusOnBlueWater → u/CandidatePresent6975]

My brother is a lawyer and works with a bunch of other lawyers and they have never set foot in court. They basically just review cases all day.

[u/_shaftpunk → u/HibiscusOnBlueWater]

I’m an accountant and I mostly browse Reddit all day.

[u/Houdinii1984 → u/Powerful-Rub-2801]

From what I read, she's going to represent other folks that have disabilities

[u/GapStock9843 → u/Powerful-Rub-2801]

You can be an attorney and never set foot in an actual courtroom. There are people who just review cases and stuff

[u/jj163 → u/[deleted]]

As a behavior analyst who’s worked with individuals across a wide range of disabilities, including many people with Down syndrome, I don’t think it’s unreasonable for people to ask questions about how this was presented. We don’t know what accommodations were provided, how assessments were administered, or how much support occurred behind the scenes. Public-facing stories often simplify complex situations.

What I disagree with is the certainty in your comment. There’s no evidence she has mosaic Down syndrome, which is relatively uncommon, and being articulate doesn’t tell us what type of Down syndrome she has. Likewise, saying mosaic Down syndrome has little effect on intelligence is misleading; while outcomes are often better than in full trisomy 21, cognitive impairment can and commonly is significant.

It’s entirely possible she’s exceptionally capable but highly unlikely. It’s also reasonable to acknowledge that media outlets sometimes highlight extraordinary cases because they’re inspirational and attract attention. I have seen with my own eyes entities using people with Down syndrome as props because their disability is so apparent.

[u/Interesting-Case2526 → u/jj163]

So I just listened to a portion of the linked interview. She's a capable girl with down syndrome, but clearly has an intellectual disability. Her answers are tangential. She said she's going to focus on human rights, which probably means she will be public-facing for a charity or something? I mean, its good branding I suppose...

[u/HillBillyHilly → u/jj163]

The girl has been and is being used to promote special interests. There are very few videos of her available and for good reason. Watching just one probes her abilities are extremely limited. Futher research indicates she attended online schools and has a "shadow professor". She did none of the work and Mexico doesn't require a bar exam.

[u/InfallibleSeaweed → u/[deleted]]

I was on board with you until I klicked on the video, that's not well spoken at all

[u/Valalvax → u/InfallibleSeaweed]

You're right I can't understand a single word she's saying!

[u/sockpoppit → u/[deleted]]

Bigotry dies hard.

I'm glad to see these people getting opportunities they deserve instead of getting immediately shot down in the system as used to be the case 100% of the time.

[u/GiantLesbian → u/[deleted]]

Their law schools function like the bar. They administer the tests and grant the credentials to practice law. It’s not like she became a lawyer without being tested on the law, come on. Lots of countries don’t do a separate bar exam after law school. The bar exam came about in the US specifically to enable people who didn’t go to law school to practice law.

[u/s1rblaze → u/GiantLesbian]

Not really no. You can graduate from law school without having to pass the bar exam, but the bar exam allow you to practice the law. To be a lawyer you need to pass the bar exam in the USA/Canada, but not in mexico, they do not require the same level.

There are many careers that require a law school degree without the need of being a lawyer(bar exam).

• "The bar exam came about in the US specifically to enable people who didn’t go to law school to practice law."

Not true for most states. Only 4 states allow you to pass the bar exam without having a J.D.

[u/djonma → u/[deleted]]

What's been omitted?
Nothing.
As it says - she's become a lawyer in Mexico.
She has the exact same qualifications as every other lawyer in Mexico.
She has fulfilled the same eligibility requirements.
She's been to uni for 4 - 5 years, then done the 500 hours community service / pro bono work, then tbh 400 hours legal internship work.
And she's done all of that in a system, not only not set up for her, but set up against people like her.
Fortunately she had good people around her, and the education system adapted to support her.

I'm guessing you're a USian?
The world isn't the US, and the bar exam isn't a universal thing.

Not being a USian doesn't take anything away from what she's done.

[u/LivesDoNotMatter → u/[deleted]]

They omitted that info on purpose because it's framed to be ragebait. /thread.

[u/djonma → u/LivesDoNotMatter]

Why would you assume the bar exam is relevant, when talking about someone becoming a lawyer in Mexico?

[u/TofuChewer → u/[deleted]]

I speak Spanish. She is not well spoken, she speaks like someone with clear cognitive problems, she can barely express herself.

Take this as an example of the interview you linked:

She is asked "What is needed to defend disabled people's rights?"

She answers "Well...defend the right of humans, and, and right to law and justice"

She is asked "Do you think there is no respect to these rights you just mentioned?"

She answers: "Well..mhh... the right is like...ll...well with discrimination... well it's very ugly being discriminated by people who doesn't know... We have to report people who discriminates... or [unintelligible] being in the jail of law?? for discriminating people who doesn't know"

The whole interview is like that. She can't answer basic questions. She is not well spoken, she speaks like an 8 yo.

[u/Annabett93 → u/[deleted]]

You go girl daaamn

[u/idontcareyo_ → u/[deleted]]

If it has little effect on her intelligence why did she need a law professor to tutor her through every aspect of achieving her qualification?

I'm not downplaying her achievement, but there's a logical incongruity between her backstory and your statement

[u/WhiteWolfNL]

And yet, Kim Kardashian cant pass her bar exam

[u/Real-Cup8782 → u/WhiteWolfNL]

Please don't equate Kim K with a smart person

[u/WhiteWolfNL → u/Real-Cup8782]

An actual fair point

[u/AintNoGodsUpHere → u/Real-Cup8782]

Please don't say that, it's offensive.

Don't equate Kim with any person. She's mostly plastic.

[u/BellamyDunn → u/AintNoGodsUpHere]

Don't insult plastic, Barbie at least had some shit to say.

[u/EngelbortHumperdonk → u/BellamyDunn]

Don’t insult Barbie, she’s been through enough. It’s not her fault the corporation made her plastic

[u/Electric_Nachos → u/EngelbortHumperdonk]

Barbie passed the bar too.

[u/Gawehay → u/BellamyDunn]

Frrr. Barbie is accomplished in hundreds of careers, including a professional lawyer

[u/AintNoGodsUpHere → u/BellamyDunn]

My bad

[u/Bedbouncer → u/AintNoGodsUpHere]

She looks like the real thing
She tastes like the real thing
My fake plastic love

[u/PandaPocketFire → u/AintNoGodsUpHere]

As someone who has a significant amount of microplastics in my blood, i take offense to this.

[u/No_Blacksmith_2591 → u/[deleted]]

And we have a saying in mexico. "there are two things nobody gets denied, a glass of water and a law degree."

[u/R4b4nont → u/No_Blacksmith_2591]

Damn, it's the first time I hear that in my life

[u/evrestcoleghost → u/R4b4nont]

Same ik argentina,pretty much all countries with public education

[u/CorporateCuster → u/[deleted]]

To become a lawyer in Mexico, you must complete 4 to 5 years of legal education (a Licenciatura en Derecho), fulfill mandatory social service and internships, pass a professional exam, and obtain a federal license (the Cédula Profesional) from the federal General Professions Bureau

[u/DesperateAdvantage76 → u/CorporateCuster]

To note, the professional exam can be just something the University comes up with on their own. The federal license is just what you get after the University finishes testing you. Getting a law degree in Mexico is significantly easier and faster than in the US, which takes 2 years longer and has a much higher competitive threshold for admittance. The bar exam is also considered one of the most difficult professional exams in the country.

Comparing the process to become a lawyer in the US and Mexico is apples to oranges.

[u/Due-Waltz4458 → u/WhiteWolfNL]

Neither did this lady, Mexico doesn't have a bar exam to become a lawyer.

[u/CorporateCuster → u/Due-Waltz4458]

Just an fyi : To become a lawyer in Mexico, you must complete 4 to 5 years of legal education (a Licenciatura en Derecho), fulfill mandatory social service and internships, pass a professional exam, and obtain a federal license (the Cédula Profesional) from the federal General Professions Bureau

[u/DesperateAdvantage76 → u/CorporateCuster]

To note, the professional exam can be just something the University comes up with on their own. The federal license is just what you get after the University finishes testing you. Getting a law degree in Mexico is significantly easier and faster than in the US, which takes 2 years longer and has a much higher competitive threshold for admittance. The bar exam is also considered one of the most difficult professional exams in the country.

Comparing the process to become a lawyer in the US and Mexico is apples to oranges.

[u/CHSummers → u/DesperateAdvantage76]

Also, lawyers have to undergo a background check before licensing, can have their license suspended or taken away for malpractice, and usually have mandatory continuing education. And, on top of that, there are quite a lot of lawyers, so it’s brutally competitive.

That said, as a person who has dealt with a range of lawyers, there really are some bad lawyers out there. Just like there are bad dentists, bad plumbers, bad car mechanics, bad house painters…

[u/Due-Waltz4458 → u/CorporateCuster]

I don't think it's necessary to compare her degree to anyone else's, because she's using her degree to study disability law and be an advocate for other people.  

But if we're having a bigger discussion about what a degree qualifies you for, then it's important to note that she had a lot of assistance getting her degree.  She had a dedicated professor that helped her prepare for exams, and aides that went to class with her.  

I don't know for sure, but it's probable that requirements like internships and social service were also modified.  Future employers would need to be able to recreate the conditions that she had in university, with lots of assistance.

[u/Somanylyingliars → u/CorporateCuster]

FYI She did her classes online and with a shadow professor. The woman can barely speak much less pass exams. Let's not keep pushing this trope.

[u/Subject_Finger_9876 → u/WhiteWolfNL]

This person didn’t pass the bar either. Mexico doesn’t require a bar and she got it by default by getting a degree. 

[u/wreckedbutwhole420 → u/WhiteWolfNL]

It's very possible to graduate law school and then not be able to pass the bar. Our gal ain't out of the woods yet lol

[u/dearth_of_passion → u/wreckedbutwhole420]

Mexico doesn't have a bar exam.

[u/WalterDwight → u/WhiteWolfNL]

fuck man most people don't have their bar

[u/PassTheKY → u/WalterDwight]

I bought my bar four years ago. Everyone should get one. Granted it’s a money pit and friends always think they drink for free but it is a fun time. The attached liquor store is where we make our money though.

[u/unhappyrelationsh1p]

Everyone here seems to have misconceptioms of down sydrome.

There are also mosaic forms of it where on average people tend to have higher IQs on average and are often disabled in other ways.

It is likely this woman is still disabled, but is likely not mentally disabled in a way that impedes her career or ability to go to college and graduate.

Being a lawyer is extremely tough and a very, very competetive field. You work hard to earn the job title. I don't doubt she had accomodations, but that's not lowering the standard.

[u/Brilliant_Quit4307 → u/unhappyrelationsh1p]

People with mosaic forms absolutely can have a higher than average IQ, which I think is what you're trying to say, but that's not what you actually said. On average, their IQs tend to be lower than average, not higher.

[u/unhappyrelationsh1p → u/Brilliant_Quit4307]

I meant among the people with downs.

[u/waltiger09 → u/unhappyrelationsh1p]

Quick google tells me that people with that condition have an average IQ of 65. She would have to be in the absolute top for intelligence in that group for it to not be an impediment to go to college and have a career.

It is possible that such is the case here, but the group as a whole has significant mental disability.

[u/Firewolf06 → u/waltiger09]

She would have to be in the absolute top for intelligence in that group

to be fair, "worlds first" definitely implies that lol. if a narrow slice have the capacity, and even smaller slice have the drive, and literally only one actually managed it. good for her

[u/unhappyrelationsh1p → u/waltiger09]

Yeah, most people with downed are very mentally disabled. It's not necessarily everyone but you are correct.

[u/Junior_Potato_3226 → u/unhappyrelationsh1p]

There is a woman named Ashley Zambelli who has three kids with DS... And that's how she found out she also has (mosaic) trisomy 21. She had no idea. She had some intermittent health problems common with the condition but otherwise no signs.

[u/Subject_Finger_9876 → u/unhappyrelationsh1p]

There is no bar in Mexico. 

[u/Neil_Salmon → u/unhappyrelationsh1p]

Every time this story is posted, it's the same snarky comments about Kim Kardashian. Comments like that are not the witty put-down of Kardashian that everyone seems to think they are. They really just serve to insult this woman and her achievements.

[u/unhappyrelationsh1p → u/Neil_Salmon]

I'd trust this woman to be my lawyer over kim k for sure. Not because i think she's dumb, but if she keeps failing the bar as a billionaire with all the resources you could ever have in the world, she is less fit to be one than the i woman with the downes who probably worked her ass off to earn the title.

Cannot be easy to be disabled and earn that, goddamn.

[u/Warm_Month_1309 → u/unhappyrelationsh1p]

Unless you live in Mexico, I wouldn't necessarily trust her to be your lawyer either.

Edit: To whomever replied and blocked, I'm not saying anything about education in Mexico. I'm saying that she's licensed in Mexico, so unless that person lives in Mexico, she would not be the right person for them to hire.

[u/Fuckthegopers → u/Warm_Month_1309]

I outsource my lawyers from Albania.

[u/FaxyMaxy → u/unhappyrelationsh1p]

I’ve got no opinion here and no skin in the game, I promise I am asking in good faith:

What are accommodations if not lowered standards?

[u/poppalopp → u/[deleted]]

Looking to the future, Ana Victoria aspires to become a legislator. She envisions a platform where she can continue to fight against discrimination and improve conditions for people with disabilities. Her preliminary engagements with the legislature show promise for her future in advocacy and policymaking.

She’s not a defense attorney so…

[u/5QGL → u/poppalopp]

Many (most?) attorneys do the bare minimum to get paid. Just like any trade. They are not all tigers like in the movies.

From what I have seen of others with DS, yes I would hire her. She passed her examples exams and, on top of that, may be more likely to have have integrity. But maybe I am romanticizing DS.

EDIT: typo

[u/SuperSiriusBlack → u/5QGL]

This is a legit comment. Youre right on all counts, and have a mature view on stereotypes. I actually do not know that much about DS, but I will admit that I was unaware that it does not always kneecap intelligence. I'll do more to educate myself, because it is only through understanding eachother that we can build a good future.

[u/Majsharan → u/[deleted]]

Most lawyers are not trial lawyers

[u/StoppableHulk → u/Majsharan]

Some bird men are lawyers, but not all lawyers are bird men.

[u/MollBoll → u/StoppableHulk]

But how many of them practice bird law?

https://giphy.com/gifs/vPKtSdRzsXvdm

[u/Derelicticu → u/[deleted]]

I don't think she's a defense attorney though. There are lots of types of lawyers, but generally they fall into one of two categories; litigator, like what you're imagining, and transactional lawyers, who draft contracts and manage legalities outside of court.

I believe she is the latter.

[u/tippleotears → u/[deleted]]

Personally, I would if I could afford her, she had the right specialty for that type of law, and a good record. The same things I'd look for in any lawyer.

A win is a win so if she winds up winning enough cases to have a good record of doing so, results are all that matters.

[u/MacramezingCreations → u/[deleted]]

If her pay rate & experience was relevant to what I needed and it made sense geographically? Yes? lol why are you asking this like a gotcha?

[u/AccidentPrawn → u/[deleted]]

As long as she passed the bar and practices in the field I need, yes.

[u/Middi272 → u/[deleted]]

The ableism is crazy. Disabled people aren’t all mentally stunted babies

[u/Life_Preparation9368 → u/Middi272]

No. But fact is she will not be in defense at all, or arguing for a client in court. She had an aide thru school, and Mexico has no bar, so she will not be required to take it. But she does plan to work in legislature.

I do really look forward to seeing what she can accomplish. I have mental and chronic illnesses. I'm disabled. She can only add to the work being done, for all people with disabilities. And having experience as one is invaluable. She gives me hope.

[u/Dollface_69420 → u/[deleted]]

tbh for her my only sort of issue (not her fault mind you) is if the other side purposely does stuff to either overwhelm her or some such, i hope she has a great support for in court room cases

[u/Muffmuncherr → u/[deleted]]

Are you my mom...?🙏

[u/Muffmuncherr → u/[deleted]]

I bet you're an amazing mom! ❤️

[u/FunkySynth808 → u/[deleted]]

We didn't get you anything for mother's day😭 happy late mother's day!!!

[u/Willing_Stomach_8121]

I’m down for her to be my lawyer

[u/saltyicecream2009 → u/Willing_Stomach_8121]

thats crazy

[u/Israel_Trump_Fan]

She didn't actually pass the bar exam, you only need a law degree to call yourself a lawyer in Mexico. She doesnt actually practice law and is a disability advocate...

[u/Skeleton--Jelly → u/Israel_Trump_Fan]

just to be clear, it's not that she didn't pass it, there is no such exam

[u/Born2bwylde_]

Her suitcase is full of grilled cheese

[u/Free_Load4672 → u/Born2bwylde_]

Where’d you get the cheeeese Danny?

[u/cabronfavarito]

sorts by controversial

[u/BadLt58]

Fun Fact: She was offered a job by the US Department of Justice recently

[u/dimechimes → u/BadLt58]

Overqualified

[u/code-coffee → u/BadLt58]

She can do better

[u/Rengar_Is_Good_kitty]

I mean if the title is true that's cool, but the sad reality is that no one will want her as their lawyer.

[u/MealCapital4167 → u/Rengar_Is_Good_kitty]

Even the people who are defending her in this thread wouldn't take her as their own lawyer...

[u/aybbyisok → u/MealCapital4167]

look at my lawyer dawg, i'm going to jail

[u/SubieDoobyDoo96 → u/Rengar_Is_Good_kitty]

She’s not a defense lawyer, she wants to practice human right law. She will likely be on a team of lawyers pursuing advocacy for people like her and I’m sure her team will be very accepting and proud of her.

[u/MealCapital4167 → u/SubieDoobyDoo96]

Why would that team hire her over someone without Down syndrome?

[u/lushico → u/MealCapital4167]

Because she will be advocating for people with disabilities so it makes sense to have someone who understands that

[u/reluctantseal → u/MealCapital4167]

Assuming she's qualified for the specific position in this hypothetical, there's no reason to think that she couldn't offer a valuable perspective and pull her weight. She is a lawyer.

Also, she does have firsthand experience in the subject. She could actually be a really good addition to a team.

[u/Goobtron11 → u/Rengar_Is_Good_kitty]

someone had to say it

[u/emmanuel573]

lol had a law professor accompanying her for every class, wish I had that for an accommodation

[u/Houdinii1984 → u/emmanuel573]

You can have accommodations for most needs. You just need to make it happen.

I get an extra hour a week to make sure I have everything lined up. It's not much and it only serves as a check and balance against my ADHD, making sure things don't fall through the cracks. It's beneficial to the company, as I'm a good worker that has an attention issue, mitigated by an agreement.

The hard part? Other folks that think they know better. That think I'm gaming the system for an entire extra 52 hours a year, or think it's unfair that I actually discussed an issue with management that needed attention. In reality, that's just part of being a team player and asking how I can put myself in the best position to help the team.

If you have certain issues and you don't communicate them, and just hold it in, then you're just ignoring the issues and not helping the team. Generally it's because capitalism and management make it a bit scary to even try, but that's not the fault of this woman.

Also, she went to Autonomous University of Zacatecas, an incredibly progressive university in Mexico who is seemingly seeing great success. What's really frustrating is that she was able to get personalized attention from college for $70 a semester when so many of us are paying hundreds of thousands and getting forgotten and cast to the side.

The issue isn't that she got accommodations, but the price we pay to not have the same. Private tutoring is a resource we should all be able to get on the regular, but not something offered by these universities.

[u/BaeIz → u/[deleted]]

I’m going to hell for laughing

[u/Hagasaw → u/[deleted]]

I thought that severe mental disability was part of down syndrome. I’ve read that that mental disability can be very small. The woman in the article is probably smart and normal functioning apart from her physical disability.

[u/IAMAPAIDCIASHILL]

Jesus christ stop posting this stupid garbage. Surely it's bots because what person would he fucking stupid enough to post this again

[u/WoinkySpoingle → u/IAMAPAIDCIASHILL]

Absolutely engagement bait bots 

[u/Melodic-Comb9076]

1 mo account age. posting ‘real’ stories.

[u/This-Insect-5692 → u/[deleted]]

Bruh ☠️

[u/hugeweedfan69]

I’d be down for her to handle my upcoming murder trial

[u/searchlinkprofile]

I cant tell if bait.

[u/More_Tear2982]

"In rare cases, IQ scores reported for individuals with Down syndrome have fallen within the statistically average range (traditionally IQ ≥ 85). However, such cases are unusual enough that they are often discussed in clinical reports or as examples of exceptional outcomes."

The idea that this person could have met the requirements to obtain a law degree is very hard to take seriously

[u/Dazzling_Analyst_59]

I am a person with cerebral palsy. I graduated from a law academy and currently work in a field related to law.

And I am looking at this story with maximum criticism, which in my view it deserves.

A girl with Down syndrome, who studied for years with a personal tutor (“maestra sombra”) and obtained a law degree in Mexico, after which she is being presented as “the world’s first practicing lawyer with Down syndrome,” is not an example of inclusion, but an example of how easily professional reality can be replaced by a media narrative.

This is not an achievement of the legal system. It is a PR story that dangerously blurs the line between education and the real execution of a profession.

The legal profession is not about a diploma or symbolism. It is about constant cognitive work: handling large volumes of facts, analyzing legal norms, logical reasoning, strategic planning, managing procedural deadlines, and taking full personal responsibility for the consequences of decisions affecting other people.

And the key question here is not emotional, but practical: is the person able to independently, consistently, and without critical external support perform these functions at the level required by the legal profession?

In cases of significant cognitive impairments that may accompany Down syndrome, there are often substantial limitations in working memory, attention span, information processing speed, abstract thinking, and the ability to maintain complex cause-and-effect reasoning. In legal practice, these are not minor details — they are core professional tools.

If the execution of key functions requires constant supervision, prompts, and the effective replacement of cognitive work by other people, then this is no longer a “practicing lawyer.” It is a different role, which society should be honest enough to name properly, rather than masking it with grand titles.

I myself have cerebral palsy. I did not seek simplified paths: I could have entered university through an interview instead of national exams, but I chose to take the standard exams. During my studies, I completed internships in courts, the police, the bar, and the prosecutor’s office. I have seen what real legal work looks like, where mistakes are not abstract — they have real consequences for people.

That is why what bothers me is not the story of inclusion itself, but its presentation as a “historic breakthrough” without an honest discussion of professional competence.

Inclusion must not destroy professional standards. Because then it is no longer inclusion — it becomes a simulation of achievement, ultimately paid for by clients who expect not symbolism, but competence.

[u/Omg-miku]

i am facing the death penalty over a minor traffic violation

[u/holygrailoffail]

So internet culture is at the point of deluding ourselves to pretend a severe mental disability isn't actually impactful to intelligence. Got it.

[u/Valveringham85]

She doesn’t practice law. She got given a degree. It’s not the same thing.

[u/Encephalitl5]

i dont know... but id rather have a lawyer without down syndrome defending me

[u/skrazzleNdazzle]

15 years to life for a parking ticket

[u/fredsify → u/skrazzleNdazzle]

I really shouldnt but;

Ive talked them down from misdemeanor to capital punishment

[u/Club_Warm]

W lawyer she got me 3 years of probation instead of 30 days in jail!!!

[u/Key_Mathematician951]

Who said she was practicing? If so, where?

[u/Goobtron11 → u/Key_Mathematician951]

She's not, it's a mostly embellished article

[u/Awkward_Brother_4460 → u/Key_Mathematician951]

Shane Gillis’ defense attorney 

[u/vadose24 → u/Awkward_Brother_4460]

My client pleads grilled cheese

[u/Ok-Sail691 → u/vadose24]

Death penalty over a parking ticket 😭🙏

[u/Artver]

There isn't just one kind of Down syndrome. It's wonderful to see stories like this for her and her loved ones, but it's important to remember that people with Down syndrome have a very wide range of abilities and support needs. Some require extensive daily care and may even need protective headgear for safety reasons.

[u/HomicidalHushPuppy]

Degree from a university in Mexico. How do their standards for practicing lawyers compare to US or Euro standards?

[u/Throwitortossit → u/HomicidalHushPuppy]

One difference that I know is that Mexico doesn't have a bar exam like the US and European countries.

[u/Valuable-Way-5464]

Allways remember HOW BIG, nay, HOW GIANT was her parents role in this. Her parents surely were the pressing factor

[u/toastvibes03]

https://www.latintimes.com/meet-ana-victoria-espino-latina-making-history-first-lawyer-down-syndrome-556529 Meet Ana Victoria Espino, the Latino with Down Syndrome making history with her Law school graduation

[u/Ok-Cook-7542 → u/toastvibes03]

Missing context TLDR: She had a personal aide who was a law professor who accompanied her to every class and assisted her with every assignment/exam. Also law school in Mexico is the equivalent of US undergrad (4 years right out of high school) and has no licensing exam.

[u/Additional-Tax-5643 → u/Ok-Cook-7542]

For the sake of the profession, stuff like this shouldn't happen. If you can't function as a lawyer on your own, you have no business being a lawyer. Standards exist for a reason.

It's a disservice to clients who need genuine legal help and pay quite a bit of money for it.

[u/Chicken_Mc_Thuggets → u/Additional-Tax-5643]

From my understanding, she’s working as an advocate rather than as a defense attorney

[u/TheNonCredibleHulk → u/Ok-Cook-7542]

AbLEisM!

She had a personal aide who was a law professor who accompanied her to every class and assisted her with every assignment/exam

I get a little help here and there, or even an aide, but having an actual law professor "helping"?

I guess good luck to her in the future, but I wonder how much help she is going to require.

[u/electricgray]

This sounds like a cumtown bit

[u/BMoneyCPA → u/electricgray]

If only she had been the lawyer during the Derek Chauvin lawyer bit.

[u/Pukebox_Fandango]

If she becomes a defense lawyer and loses a case, can the defendant argue they had ineffective counsel?

[u/Completegibberishyes]

Forget the abeleism , I'm not sure you guys know what the word lawyer means

[u/RadicalSoda_ → u/Completegibberishyes]

Or "practicing"

[u/Funny_Worldliness357]

I’m skeptical of this. Law School is hard, even for people without neurodivergence’s.

[u/NeoSoulen → u/Funny_Worldliness357]

If it makes any difference, it is true, but it's also from Mexico. There is no BAR exam there. Not saying that necessarily means anything, but those are the facts. Edited out the rich part, saw that somewhere before but can't confirm its true.

[u/EXinthenet → u/Funny_Worldliness357]

Yeah, even something as simple as writing plurals seems to be way too complicated.

[u/Charming-Standard-84 → u/[deleted]]

THEN WHY ALL THE TEQUILA??!!

[u/economicAtomBomb → u/[deleted]]

No exam needed in Mexico.

[u/StOPcRyingYaBaby]

I’m 1000% sure my state appointed attorney was the first

[u/31d4r-]

Proving what exactly?

[u/__google]

She should celebrate with a margarita

[u/Ill-Angle-5573]

She’s the first? Obviously the writer of this article has never been given advice by a junior enlisted barracks lawyer…

[u/jake_from_st_farm]

To everyone supporting this, don’t just be a white knight here. Use her as your lawyer if you ever need one in Mexico. Help prove everyone wrong about her intelligence and ability!

[u/KUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUZ]

shes also incredibly racist, for whats its worth