r/comics • u/Choekaas • 5h ago
OC The Odyssey haters (OC)
Originally posted here as part of a series of comics every day:
https://www.instagram.com/p/Da15Oy4gA9k/?igsh=bGs2bDQyeXljeTY1
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u/vbt31 4h ago
And film producers emerge happy as they've successfully manipulated people through driving outrage, interaction, a need to defend, and using media representation as a shield, stepping stone, and a poker chip.
And the cycle goes on,
The world continues to spin merrily and merrily~
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u/Sigman_S 4h ago
You give them way too much credit
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u/vbt31 4h ago edited 2h ago
Of producers manipulating people? That's not too much credit, that's just what many of them do as part of the job. Especially because, apparently it doesn't take much to manipulate people.
(Lol, who are downvoting me - Film producers? Or people who don't know about film production?)
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u/CosmicEveStardust 3h ago
What do you think a film producer does?
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u/vbt31 3h ago edited 3h ago
From what I've learned from being in the film industry for a bit, generally, producers are in charge and responsible for everything non-story related. They take charge of the funding, logistics, workforce; they're the ones who make films actually happen as a project.
That' why when something like a Best Picture Oscar is awarded, it's the film's producers who go up to receive them. They're the ones powering the movie to happen.
They're also the ones who are going to be thinking bout the finance and marketing side, how much things cost and how much to make money.
All of that is to say producers hold a lot of systemic power in the industry, and it only amplifies as the corporate ladder goes up. And I'm saying that I think it doesn't take much for some producer to push for a film to have more "controversial" element just to generate more buzz through it.
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u/MahomestoHel-aire 2h ago
From my own experience, producers tend to more jump on what’s happening rather than start it themselves. So in this case, the blowback was not something they expected or planned for but once it did happen, they leaned into it a little.
You mention money, as Michael Jordan once said “Republicans buy sneakers too.” Alienating any of your audience, no matter if their reasoning is logical or downright ridiculous, is typically not a course of action one takes. But when it does occur, taking advantage is a whole different story.
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u/vbt31 2h ago
You raise fair points.
My main counterpoint tho is, about
"Alienating any of your audience, no matter if their reasoning is logical or downright ridiculous, is typically not a course of action one takes."I think their goal isn't really the largest possible audience. It's the largest possible profit. The audience is a means to that end.
That's why I don't think it's a stretch to imagine decision makers occasionally "spicing up" a project in ways they expect will generate controversy. Controversy drives attention. Attention creates awareness, and awareness can translate into curiosity. Even people with no stake in the debate might end up thinking, "What's all the fuss about?" and decide to check it out.
I'm not saying that's the reason behind every controversial decision. I just think it's plausible that, for some producers, the discussion itself can become part of the marketing. This is just based on my own observation of media project decisions; I'd love to know the behind-the-scenes decisions and data to reject or confirm my assumption.
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u/Dead-O_Comics 1h ago
And film producers emerge happy as they've successfully manipulated people through driving outrage
Hires two accomplished actors, one of which he's worked with previously
Chuds on the internet "And I took that personally"
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u/vbt31 1h ago
Those things unfortunately aren't mutually exclusive. I never made any assertion about accomplishments, skills, and qualifications.
Also, I have no personal interest or care in Nolan and The Odyssey. My comment was just an observation of the larger film (and entertainment) industry, of how controversy drives engagement and profit, and people being manipulated into it.
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u/Dead-O_Comics 58m ago edited 45m ago
I don't believe the majority of conspiracies with this kind of marketing, as it has a terrible track record.
The majority of these recent films accused of 'stunt casting' have all flopped. Engagement has never necessarily equalled profit.
Ghostbusters 2016, The Little Mermaid and Snow White are examples where the controversy reached fever pitch, yet they bombed regardless.
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u/vbt31 37m ago
Then if the strategy consistently underperforms financially, why does the industry keep repeating it? There has to be some incentive sustaining it. Whether that's marketing, corporate values, socio-political shield, misreading the data, or something else.
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u/Dead-O_Comics 34m ago
I think you're just conflating stunt casting decisions with sincere ones. Halle Bailey and Rachel Zeggler are both really good singers which probably factored into their casting. Paul Feig prefers women casts and has only a passing interest in the Ghostbusters IP.
I don't see how anyone would intentionally piss off their audience thinking it'll result in profit.
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u/vbt31 23m ago
I'm definitely letting my pessimistic assumption out. My bottom line is that I observe progressive or progressive-seeming decisions being made, often time even at the detriment of progressive values or as an creative product. If they are being made sincerely and genuinely, and if my assumption is completely bullshit, I'll be fucking happy. I just don't feel like that with my general cynicism towards media and entertainment corporations, that they're making decisions based on genuine art quality or progressive representation, rather using those as shields.
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u/Mach12gamer 4h ago
I just don’t like the costumes.
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u/Silvernauter 2h ago
I'm genuinely so angry about this: i don't particularly like all the cast, not just the two actors that chuds point out (it'd have beeen nice to, y'know, cast some greek and italian people, given the setting, rather than just the usual big name actors), but mainly none of the costumes they showed looked good to me, and (at least from the trailers) the movie seems like the usual nolan movie that thinks that any colour saturation beyond "muted" is an assault to the senses (...unilke the soundtrack, that can and should be blared so high that the movie screen quakes, aparently...). Can i please have and be able to express my opinion without being lumped in with maga dumbasses every fucking time?
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u/MahomestoHel-aire 2h ago
The thing about the costumes that sticks out to me is that for those who have seen the film, it is not a complaint at all. Like nobody has brought it up. I always figured it was some sort of stylized choice from a director known for being decisive and every choice having meaning, so if it fits what he’s going for, then imo that makes sense. Others might disagree. Either way, I don’t think we can really judge the costumes until seeing the film in full to get the entire, very much relevant context for them.
I will also add that I know someone who worked in the costume department for the movie and have therefore seen some exclusive pictures up close. This is therefore definitely a biased opinion, but I promise an honest one: they looked pretty good to me.
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u/Mach12gamer 2h ago
The original odyssey actually uses the colors on Odysseus, which are generally brighter, to do a full circle thing with parts of how Penelope recognizes him, so besides personal taste (and a big part of it is just personal taste, I don’t like the costumes but that doesn’t mean they're inherently bad), I do dislike the lost opportunity to be both faithful to the original story and do fun stuff that would be even stronger in a medium like film.
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u/las_piratas_de_queso 36m ago
There is no “original” Odyssey. Even if you can read Greek, the story has been changed countless times.
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u/SolarFazes 1h ago
Sure bud
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u/Mach12gamer 1h ago
How is that an unbelievable statement
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u/SolarFazes 1h ago
Once the raving reviews for The Odyssey started, I knew the contrarian personality disorder loudmouths wouldn't be able to help themselves online.
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u/Owoegano_Vuelve 1h ago
I wouldn't be throwing "personality disorders" so willy nilly from your glass house lmao
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u/SolarFazes 56m ago
Come on brother, don't act like people that reflexively shit on popular things don't exist.
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u/Subby_Tripz 4h ago
What if you dislike both?
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u/sanglar03 4h ago
Can't be racism if you hate everyone equally.
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u/Subby_Tripz 4h ago
I dont hate them xD I just want my historical settings more accurate because I like history ^^
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u/musschrott 4h ago
It's fantasy, there's Gods in there actively meddling in human affairs. It's not history, so it can't be accurate anyways.
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u/Subby_Tripz 4h ago
Just because its fantasy doesnt mean that anything goes ^^ A fantasy story has to work within its own rules.
The Story takes place in actual places in greece in an era that realy took place...its not a fantasy world like asgard and it doesnt take place in some abstract time frame like star wars. Its a real place with the people that used to live there with the technology that people back then had.0
u/musschrott 2h ago
Just because its fantasy doesnt mean that anything goes
That's not what I wrote.
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u/GandalfTheGay_69 4h ago
I'm so tired of this terrible take. This would mean that worldbuilding in any book or movie wouldn't matter because "it's fantasy, we can do what we want".
There was a ton of outrage from progressive people because Hollywood kept "white washing" properties 20 years ago. Now diversity is suddenly more important than proper adaptation and we should ignore mismatches "because it's fantasy, it's not real history".
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u/antoniossomatos 4h ago
If you want to say that the movie should have mainly actors from the Mediterranean then, sure, I'm all for it. Otherwise, I should point out that black people were around the Mediterranean, as soldiers, traders, what you will. In that sense, casting a black Helena is not substantially more "ahistorical" than casting a blonde German. But, really, I just hope it is a good, entertaining movie. These internet squabbles about race are just boring.
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u/LowKiss 4h ago
They could bother not casting the whitest north Europeans ever instead of people of Italian, Greek, Spanish or Arab descent.
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u/antoniossomatos 3h ago
Yes. If the problem is accuracy, cast Mediterranean people (and, like I said, there's even space for some black actors in that scenario, though maybe not as Greek nobles). Whining because black people were cast amongst various flavors of non Mediterranean white people is another thing entirely. Blonde hair or blue eyes at this point in history would be far rarer in the Mediterranean than black skin.
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u/LowKiss 3h ago
I hope one day Hollywood will actually represent my area fairly and not as a collection of British tourist.
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u/antoniossomatos 3h ago
Hey, they usually can't even be bothered to find someone that speaks with even a remotely passable accent to represent mine (and I'm Portuguese, we're really everywhere), I know that pain.
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u/GandalfTheGay_69 3h ago
Yes I agree, I just think it's stupid that this outrage is only allowed to go one way. Imagine if this movie had the same cast that Troy had. The same people who are saying "it's fantasy" now would (rightfully) be up in arms about white washing. Point something out about the dubious casting of this one and you will immediately be labeled a racist.
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u/antoniossomatos 3h ago
You are not wrong, though I really struggle to be outraged in most situations when there are not strong historical reasons for someone to not look a certain way in works that aspire to be historically accurate. Otherwise, I can't say I care that much. Now I'm chuckling a bit thinking of the confusion the Internet would raise if for some reason a movie in Ancient Greece would include race-accurate Cassiopeia or Andromeda 😆
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u/sadgloop 2h ago
>white washing
I think you’re ignoring the larger context of why there was pushback against that.
That is, that it wasn’t just “white washing” a couple of stories. It was wide sweeping white washing *in combination* with extensive exploitation and opportunity gatekeeping.
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u/musschrott 2h ago
You know what I am tired of? People misconstruing other people's posts and then getting angry about them.
Please reread what I actually wrote. It's fantasy, not history.So it should not attempt to strive for historical accuracy. Be that races, available technology, or involvement of mythological beings. But apparently you imagine I also said something else? About how nothing matters? Because I didn't. A good story should of course be internally consistent. But it needs to stick to itself and its own established conventions not to what actually happened in a vaguely similar looking era of actual history.
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u/GandalfTheGay_69 2h ago
You're saying the same thing you said before and it's still stupid. The setting is supposed to be ancient Greece, it's not a vagualy similar looking area.
We're talking mythology here, this was religion, not some fairytale.
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u/musschrott 2h ago
You're saying the same thing you said before
With you so far.
it's still stupid.
...something is.
The setting is supposed to be ancient Greece
No. It's a mythological (aka fantastical) version of what people image it has been. If the ethnological background of the actors is the only thing you criticize, you're either bullshitting me, or yourself. Because if we're talking late bronze age (when the Illiad is supposed to have happened), then you gotta critizice a hell of a lot more in terms of technology, body hair, hygiene, religious beliefs and rituals, hell - even languages spoken.
We're talking mythology here, this was religion, not some fairytale.
...the difference being? You know that "some fairytales" have just as much of a mythological background than "proper" religions have, right? Your Western-centricism is showing.
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u/asecondsense2222 4h ago
I will say, one thing I've never understood, is why are these places so racially diverse, but also supposdely ancient.
What i mean by that is, for instance, in the lord of the rings show, middle earth is extremely diverse, and everybody is fine with intermarriage, and theres alot of interracial couples, why isnt everybody brown then?
Logically in a few generations of intermarriage, all these different colored people would mix, becoming one group. To be diversity, there have to be different groups, you can't just have a bunch of different tribes, and have everybody be one of every color, thats not how race works
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u/Subby_Tripz 3h ago
There are ancient places on our earth that have diverse societies without everyone beeing brown tho ^^ And when talking about Rings of Power...isnt the black elve and the white human women the only interacial couple in there?
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u/asecondsense2222 3h ago
Yeah alot of those ancient civilizations were diverse, but they were made up of different groups, as opposed to alot of modern day shows were everybody is the same tribe, but they all have different skin tones, and its never mentioned, thats more what I meant, like we're like that today, but theres a history behind that. Also i just used rings of power off the top of my head, probably better examples, i aint seen it in a while but I was more thinking of how all the hobbits are diverse, but all part of the same tribe
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u/Subby_Tripz 3h ago
Well...they will probably have some history behind it aswell just like in our world...elves for example seem very advanced in their society and at the same time feel superior to all non-elves so it kinda makes sense that they dont discriminate among themselves and the ancient kind of hobbits are a nomadic people who hugely depend on each other and every pair of hands is needed to keep the community save...so they cant afford to throw a helpful member out just because of his skin color.
So my point is that you CAN find explanations in those realy high fantasy kind of worlds if you want to and if the lore gives enough room for it.
(I also just remembered that the dwarf king has a black wife but we never see how their kids actualy look like )
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u/bathtubsplashes 2h ago edited 2h ago
There's white people in Brazil, you know that right?
Edit: quick downvotes and no replies. Excellent. Brazil is possibly the country with the most historical intermixing and there is an absolutely massive array of different tones of skin color there. Completely proving this guy to be talking absolute shit, basically great replacement theory nonsense
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u/shiba2129808 4h ago
Could be worse, they once made a live action Terraformars and despite that a lot of the characters were from other countries, they only casted Japanese actors in it. While I understand that that is the only people they were gonna hire considering that it’s a Japanese movie filmed in Japan, I still thought it was a dumb idea to make the movie with that cast
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u/Deathbringer193082 3h ago
I mean asking for historical accuration isnt racist
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2h ago
[deleted]
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u/Daemoniaque 2h ago
Napoleon was Ridley Scott, not Nolan. Nolan's latest before this was Oppenheimer.
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u/WhiskeyAndKisses 2h ago
Oh, shit, thank you. I don’t know why I mixed the two, I owe Nolan an apology.
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u/SolarFazes 1h ago
So this is where the haters are retreating to now that their attempt to make The Odyssey fail was in itself a massive failure.
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u/asecondsense2222 4h ago
You gotta admit though, there are degrees and a bit more subtlety to this.
We dont care when Brits play Germans, as they both look very similar. Anglos and Mediterraneans look moderately different on average, but there are some anglos that could pass as miditerraneans, and vice versa. When you have a Somalian or Indian acting as a Mediterraneans, thats probably a bit more noticeable.
Either way The Odyssey is Nolans retelling, just look at the fortnite armour, its an Americanized version.
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u/MahomestoHel-aire 2h ago
Fortnite armor is a bit of an oversimplification, the footage and pictures we were given just looked a little weird tbh.
I happen to actually know someone who helped build the armor and have therefore seen some close-up shots. I would call them stylized more than cheap or cartoonish looking. Nothing Nolan does is unintentional, there’s definitely a reason behind it all. I don’t even think it’s an “Americanized version” based on reviews. I just think it’s his own version of the epic with some creative liberties, flat out.
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u/OstentatiousBear 3h ago
I don't expect this to be a popular opinion here, but having people of East African heritage cast into a movie concerning Greek mythology makes more sense than someone of Anglo heritage, given how Greeks had more contact with them than those from the British Isles and Northern Europe.
Besides, I don't recall anyone criticizing Ovid for being too woke when he claimed that Andromeda had dark skin. Sure, you can claim that is different from Nolan's Helen of Troy, but my point stands that East Africans and Indians are not exactly out of place in Greek Mythology (biggest example: King Memnon and his "Aethiopian" army in the Illiad). I will also admit that it would be concerning if we actually did find ancient Roman documentation of critics calling Ovid "woke" for attributing dark skin to Andromeda.
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u/TheCharalampos 36m ago
Aye from what we know the sight of a black person in let's say Crete would be quite usual. And Arab even more likely.
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u/asecondsense2222 3h ago
They definitely aren't out of place in Greek Mythology, but they are different groups though. You could have Africans and Indians in this time period, but as your saying here, they wouldnt be Greek, they'd be African or Indians, played by Africans or Indians. My point was that in the casting, if you tell me somebody is Greek, and hes played by a Brit, thats more believable than if an African was playing a Greek. Now if that Greek had an African father than sure, but the characters in this story are ethnically greek
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u/bathtubsplashes 2h ago
You reckon there was zero mixing back then? And a black child born in Greece to a Greek parent wouldn't just be known as a greek in literature?
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u/LowKiss 2h ago
Greeks didn't even consider people of other Greek cities Greek sometimes.
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u/bathtubsplashes 2h ago
What we could ask instead is whether Greek society was ethnically diverse. This is something the Greeks themselves were very interested in, since they tended to define their in-group of citizens through birth; in all their political communities, foreigners could only integrate so much, and usually stood out for their names, language, customs, cults, and sometimes looks. If we look at these markers of difference, we find that many communities were indeed very diverse, and more so the richer they were. Greek communities were connected to a network of trade and migration that spanned the entire Mediterranean and Black Sea; the states on the edges of this network had their own links further east (to India) and south (to Arabia, Nubia and Ethiopia). People from all corners travelled along this network, interacted and intermarried with other peoples, and settled (or were forced to settle) wherever there was a way for them to live.
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u/LowKiss 1h ago
This doesn't contradict what i know and what i said. There were non-greek people in greece of various origin, even of african origin as the famous author aesop was probably an african slave. What i am saying is that in regards to
And a black child born in Greece to a Greek parent wouldn't just be known as a greek in literature
eh...probably no. They greeks could be pretty xenophobic, not unlike today.
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u/bathtubsplashes 1h ago
Fair, I'll admit that might be pushing the boundaries but we can settle on there being intermingling
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u/asecondsense2222 2h ago
Your applying modern day values to this discussion
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u/bathtubsplashes 2h ago
You reckon that the Mediterranean interacted with Africans and there was no fucking going on?
You obviously have a very limited knowledge of human nature
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u/asecondsense2222 1h ago
When did I say there was zero race mixing going on? The Odyssey's main Greek characters are understood to have been ethnically Greek. There were some racemixed Greeks, but they were notable, and would have been documented to be a racemixed, as especially back then, thats a huge trait.
The idea that a african child born in greece would have been referred to as greek, is as I said, modern day values, only in the west to we believe, that your identity comes from where your born, like an African being born in Germany being German. All throughout human history they would have been classified as German
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u/bathtubsplashes 1h ago edited 1h ago
Odysseus's right-hand man, Eurybates, is explicitly described as dark-skinned with woolly or curly hair.
My readings dictated that ancient greeks didn't categorise greeks by ethnicity like we do today, but by shared culture. Which would mean if a greek man had a child with an African and raised it within greek culture it would be greek
So it sounds like you're the one looking at this through a modern lens
It's difficult to answer this question, because the Ancient Mediterranean did not share our concept of race. The modern notion of 'races' is not an objective reality, but a system of invented categories used to reinforce a hierarchy of peoples. Since Greek and Roman society did not have the same hierarchy, they never came up with a similar concept of race. The Greeks, for instance, never saw themselves as part of a wider group of "white people" who shared fundamental cultural traits; they also didn't regard the Ethiopians they encountered as representatives of a wider group of "black people". As u/cleopatra_philopater explains here, they mostly didn't perceive people's skin colour as a marker of ethnic or cultural identity, and what many people nowadays would consider a person's basic racial identity was almost never recorded.
In other words, differences in skin tone ran right through society and were seen much more as a marker of what you did than of what you were. It doesn't make much sense to try to impose our sense of race on such a society. A wealthy Greek would be insulted if he were called white, but would insist that his own sister was white as the driven snow.
What we could ask instead is whether Greek society was ethnically diverse. This is something the Greeks themselves were very interested in, since they tended to define their in-group of citizens through birth ; in all their political communities, foreigners could only integrate so much, and usually stood out for their names, language, customs, cults, and sometimes looks. If we look at these markers of difference, we find that many communities were indeed very diverse, and more so the richer they were. **Greek communities were connected to a network of trade and migration that spanned the entire Mediterranean and Black Sea; the states on the edges of this network had their own links further east (to India) and south (to Arabia, Nubia and Ethiopia). People from all corners travelled along this network, interacted and intermarried with other peoples, and settled (or were forced to settle) wherever there was a way for them to live.
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u/asecondsense2222 1h ago
Just because Eurybates is called 'dark-skinned' doesn't mean Sub-Saharan. Homer uses similar terms for swarthy/tanned Mediterranean looks. Odysseus gets described that way too. This has spiraled, but the original point was about averages. widespread Sub-Saharan mixing wasn't a thing. genetic studies show Greeks have less than 1% Sub-Saharan ancestry. Foreign characters like Memnon existed, but core Greeks in the Odyssey were Aegean stock.
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u/bathtubsplashes 1h ago
There was plenty of dark skinned people in northern africa at the time ffs
It doesn't need to have been widespread for the outrage about historical accuracy to be farcical
There were dark skinned people in Greece, so it is not a mental reimagining
Also, for the transphobes. Where does the word androgenous stem from?
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u/swanfirefly 32m ago
Helen of Troy, however, was explicitly "mixed blood" - mixed human and god. Since her siblings on her father's side include a half bull man, and Zeus seduced Leda while he was a swan and Helen hatched from an egg as the "most beautiful woman in the world".
I.E. Helen is very much supposed to stand out as different, racially or otherwise.
Since I personally think Lupita is more beautiful than Guillory (2003), I think she makes a great Helen.
I think this is the real issue racists have, because a woman of color fits WAY better than a blonde blue eyes woman, but the racists don't want to call a woman of color beautiful, even though she is, undoubtedly, gorgeous.
But go on, tell me how historically accurate the woman who hatched from an egg must be.
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u/ZennXx 4h ago
No one cared about Mercutio being Black in Romeo & Juliet. Race, gender, age don't really matter if the story and acting are good.
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u/xXDJjonesXx 4h ago
You mean the Leonardo DiCaprio one? Probably because it’s set in a weird American setting and not Medieval Italy.
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u/asecondsense2222 4h ago
That, and also thats its explicitly a reimagining/ retelling, like in the odyssey.
I can understand complaints though, when something is trying to be as historically accurate as possible, and then characters/ actors don't look their race/ gender, cause that's pretty immersion breaking.
Like if you retell Macbeth as a space opera, and have there be all these different alien races, and places, then yeah cool, but if your doing a historically accurate Macbeth, and then like just Macbeth is an alien, and its never brought up, then its noticeable, and clearly purposeful. I'm basically the Robin Williams monkey movie arent I?
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u/Ill-Dependent2976 0m ago
There's no subtlety, no.
It's just open naked racism.
They're the same people who got upset when they saw Rosa Parks sitting at the front of the bus.
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u/-FalseProfessor- 3h ago
I haven’t seen anyone complain that Eurylochus, Odysseus’s second in command, isn’t black. And he’s explicitly stated as having black skin in the text.
Funny thing, that.
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u/Fulminero 2h ago
Really? Where?
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u/TheLaughingWolf 2h ago edited 2h ago
Nowhere. He's either lying or confusing it with either Epic: The Musical or Eurylochus' hair or when he describes the ships and crew as 'black' in mood (i.e., depressed and sorrowful).
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u/Fulminero 1h ago
Thank you, I was searching online and found zero references about him being black.
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u/TheLaughingWolf 1h ago
I haven't read every translation, but I have read several and don't know of any that describe him as black — even the more modern or literal ones.
I do know a lot of online fan art makes him black because in EPIC: The Musical he's voiced by a black voice actor.
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u/WhiskeyAndKisses 2h ago
You could rage-bait the internet crowd into being offended about it to test how many actually read the tale.
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u/TheCharalampos 34m ago
I don't believe that's true. There's some great interpretations that show him as a black man but I don't think it was stated either way.
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u/TheCharalampos 38m ago
Meanwhile I'm in Greece and the idea of someone being pale white here in pre suncream times is hilarious.
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u/ConsumingFire1689 35m ago
“Remember, history says that Jesus does NOT look like a traditional man from the Middle East, but rather someone who sells raw milk online.”- Family Guy
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u/Due-Coyote7565 4h ago
IMO, whilst I get the comparison, Jesus Christ has a long history of being racially altered by believers all around the world.
Whilst I suppose the nature of Helen was always likely to change with beauty standards, I can't help but feel that this change is different. Maybe it's just cope
P.S- I have never seen the Passion of the Christ, but I have seen other media with white Jesus that I have enjoyed.
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u/bathtubsplashes 2h ago
It's almost like we as a people like to represent our own societies in these depictions?
An American film production casting in a way that represents the demographics of their society is the exact same as white or black jesus in this instance
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u/DudeFreek 2h ago
I for one enjoy media where Jesus is portrayed as a lion or a cucumber
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u/Dos_Ex_Machina 2h ago
Fun fact, Jesus was never in Veggie Tales. Common misconception, since Larry (Who was the cucumber) also died for our sins
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u/Mitoniano 3h ago
It seems that people are not familiar with the concept of giving the impression of something convincing.
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4h ago
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/The_Flippin_Police 4h ago
It’s a fictional movie based on a fictional book.
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u/SilverMedal4Life 4h ago
Well, point of order, fictional poem. But, yes.
To me, so long as the actors and actresses do a good job of portraying the emotions and themes of the poem, it doesnt' matter at all to me what they look like. If I can feel the yearning between Odysseus and Penelope, the desperation, and the sheer catharsis when they are finally reunited... then I will walk away happy.
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4h ago
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u/QuiteBearish 1h ago
I mean, if the only reason you don't like it is because of the color of a person's skin, you're closer to maga than you may think
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1h ago
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u/SpecialEquivalent816 36m ago
I don't hear anyone from Greece complaining about Tom Holland (English/Irish) or Matt Damon (Scottish/American) despite neither looking even remotely Greek.
Wonder why people who supposedly care about accuracy and respect to the culture have no problem casting those extremely anglosaxon/celtic actors but then go blind with rage with a Kenyan/Mexican actress?
[I'll give you a hint: the answer is bigotry and double standards]
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u/QuiteBearish 58m ago
They may not be maga but they are being racist, which puts them pretty close to maga in the grand scheme of things.
I don't really give a shit where you come from - if the primary complaint is the color or someone's skin, that is a racist complaint.
Hundreds if not thousands of years of theatrical tradition makes it pretty clear that neither race nor gender matter when casting an actor to a role.
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52m ago
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u/QuiteBearish 48m ago
It's still a racist complaint no matter what your culture is.
Being from Greece doesn't give you a license to be a bigot. I'd be willing to bet the majority of Greek people don't actually give a shit though. It's such a petty thing to care about.
My guess is, you're just projecting your own personal racism onto a country you're not from either, Mr. French Boy
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45m ago
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u/QuiteBearish 41m ago
There's lot of ways Americans aren't respecting the culture of the Greece with the movie and a lot of creative licenses taken with the story itself.
The color of an actress's skin is not one of those ways. The only way the color of her skin is relevant is due to racism. A Kenyan actress is just as capable of respecting (or disrespecting) the culture as a white British actress...
And if a white British actress had been cast you wouldn't be hearing a peep out of anyone (even though that wouldn't be historically accurate either)
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u/Panpancanstand 1h ago
Now do the one where everyone is pissed off there are only while actors in the new LOTR movie.
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u/Satanic_Jellyfish 1h ago
Some people treat it like the ‘murican adaptation going to ruin The Odyssey and yet most of them never even read it. Laughable to think that people who can’t name even one Greek actress or actor suddenly care about Greek representation
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u/CaptainMcAnus 59m ago
I one time had to break it to a friend that "The Patriot" wasn't an accurate representation of the American Revolution. He ignored me completely.
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u/Safe2BeFree 30m ago
Is this that whole "Jewish people aren't considered white" argument? I thought we were past all that.
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u/FrostyEnvironment902 4h ago
I am actually annoyed they do such an Old Epic so dirty. Let the key characters be Greek.
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u/pinkleftsock 4h ago
"White Jesus is not historically accurate" My brother in Crist we don't even have proof the guy existed..
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u/HasFiveVowels 4h ago
The historical Jesus is generally not disputed by historians. We have a decent amount of evidence that an influential Jewish guy showed up in the area and was named Jesus
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u/darthnecros98 4h ago
Everyone going on about historical accuracy ignoring the fact that the Odyssey is a work of fiction.
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u/EVedEevee 2h ago
Yeah I’m on the side of, I would have LOVED to see a movie with historically accurate armour and set design but I know Hollywood and Nolan wouldn’t want to risk normal people/cinephiles to think it looks weird. But like I wen to school specifically in Greek myth. My main issue is actually that I don’t think you can tell the story properly with just one movie. The hobbit gets three but this gets one?
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u/Friendly-Customer778 3h ago
Theres more proof jesus existed then Caesar of rome .....jesus is literally the golden standard of ancient historical figure
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u/xXDJjonesXx 4h ago
My only gripe is that they need to cast someone who’s drop dead gorgeous as Helen of Troy. Is this not the woman who’s meant to be “the most beautiful woman in the world” and whom entire armies will fight over?
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u/-FalseProfessor- 3h ago
The parts of the odyssey that feature Helen of *Argos* take place 20 years after her face launched those thousand ships, at which point her beauty is said to have faded.
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u/TheCharalampos 33m ago
Aye but what does beautiful mean? To many the actress they cast is extremely beautiful. Each culture, heck each individual, has differing tastes.
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u/Friendly-Customer778 3h ago
....yeah helen being black and elliot page as a soldier made me not want to watch...sorry not sorry
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u/Media___Offline 1h ago
It's so funny to see the right do what the left generally does, and the hypocrisy of the left critizing it. Two sides of the same coin.
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u/ErusTenebre 2h ago
Yeah and Hamilton never rapped either! I can't stand it when people put peanut butter in my chocolate.