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u/Secret-Ad-5777 𝙑𝙄𝙋 3d ago
Norwegians aren't even socalist
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u/TheNeuroLizard 3d ago
A large number of US citizens fully believe all of Europe, if not most of the world, is either socialist or communist—but at the same time, socialism never works—that we’re the only free country—but also that the government is totalitarian because of vaccines, taxes, regulations—the only country with wealth and opportunity, that everyone’s trying to get into—and simultaneously a weakened country who has been taken advantage of by the rest of the world for decades. The Norwegian here is responding to a factual error, but it won’t matter because the brain of the median US Facebook user is several layers of cooked.
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u/FattyMooseknuckle 2d ago
The vast majority of that large number use socialism and communism interchangeably because they couldn’t define either of them if there was a gun to their head.
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u/LesserValkyrie 3d ago
Americans are brainwashed since school that not bleeding your life for your shareholders is socialism
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u/EvilLibrarians 3d ago
Yeah nobody understands nuance of mixed markets
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u/tallandlankyagain 3d ago
American here. I know plenty about mixed martial arts thank you very much.
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u/Cocaine_Ewok 3d ago
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u/walkinmywoods 2d ago
Mfs will call this ai too probably.
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u/never0101 2d ago
its fully legit. source : i know things.
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u/Proper_Payment7845 3d ago
Well thats because the UFC is part of the White house now
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u/HODOR00 3d ago
Americans have been trained to think the word socialist is just bad. Like it just comes with all these bad things that they can't really describe or explain, but it's bad. Really bad.
I am hoping we are waking up in this country to how manipulative this all is. That's why politicians are terrified of social Democrats winning key offices. It will very quickly break the facade they have maintained for decades. Fuck my parents were telling me that mamdani has a secret agenda. So I asked, well what is it and why is it bad? And they unitonically said to me, well if we knew what it was, it wouldn't be secret. And looked smug like they had caught me in some mental trap.
I told them I was embarrassed for them. That they raised me to think critically and it kills me to see them failing to do that themselves.
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u/PuertoRicanProfessor 3d ago
Hit then with "I'm not mad, just disappointed"
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u/teetering_bulb_dnd 2d ago
It's so deep rooted .. regular daily brainwash, load them with manufactured and programmed opinions and reinforce the biases daily... repetition of labels and keywords Welfare, Socialism, Elites, Globalist etc word association. They can trigger the response they need by labeling someone "elitist" or a "socialist" or "family values person" or "small town values" etc ... 24/7 news cycles are peppered with these labels defining what is good and and what is bad and associated labels.. once you establish the word association and make it stick, the audience will be in "auto" labeling mode. It's always "my" country and "my tax dollars" never "our country" or "our tax dollars".... but when it comes to debt it's "our debt" and "national debt"... Its so deeply rooted in the culture it's just a total mindfuck..
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u/st1ckmanz 3d ago
This. Exactly this. When an American hears the word, it's auto shut down for them. They can't really explain it, other than parroting simple arguments like "but if they don't work, they shouldn't get anything"...how about millions of people working their asses off their whole lifes, only to pay collage debt or make %0.1 insanely rich...but can we really summerize capitalism like this?
I'm not picking sides here, but it's not black and white as many think so.
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u/Prooteus 2d ago
The american conservative mindset depends entirely on the dream that everyone starts off on an even playing field and we all get the same opportunities in life. Using that logic when someone is in a situation where they need help its obviously because they put themselves there and refuse to leave. So my hard earned money that I got solely through my own hard work and nothing else has to go to someone that just decided not to do that.
This is clearly ignoring reality. I always ask, the 8 year old who is being a lookout at the drug house for the gang members because thats the only way he can eat, how is he on the same field as you playing tag with your friends and going to school. Also ive seen that lookout kid with my own eyes.
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u/Dapper-DL 2d ago
I don’t agree with your analysis of the “conservative mindset.” Most conservatives believe you have the opportunity to improve your life no matter where you came from. Not that everyone will improve their lives equally, at the same rate, or to the same level.
I think it’s also grounded more in reality rather than fantasy.
With that said, they do tend ignore the flaws of their own belief system and capitalism.
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u/mob19151 2d ago
I think this whole belief system combines with the bullshit mythology of "rugged individualism" to play on people's egos. The idea that, no, you're not being severely exploited by your boss, "you're just a really hard worker," lets people without much to be proud of feel superior to those they deem "lazy." Hence why when you even suggest the idea that these alleged "lazy parasites" actually started with less and work even harder than them is received with such hostility.
I'm not a blue-collar worker, but I've worked a lot of jobs that would be considered blue-collar. This mindset is absolutely ingrained within them and it only got worse with the rise of MAGA.
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u/rogers_tumor 2d ago
and I love that whenever you point out the gross inequalities in access to education, food, water, shelter, and opportunity, the response is, "anyone can join the military."
??? like????
incredible that you hate government welfare programs but you're more than willing to sacrifice youth who had no control over the circumstances they were born into, to said government that just can't help starting deeply unpopular wars. WTF.
(also what about those who can't join the military??)
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u/Right_Sight 2d ago
It's even more disgusting than that. You know about the Prosperity Gospel right? A good chuck of conservatives in the US (if not a majority now) believe that people who are rich are rich because of God's will and people who are poor are poor because apparently God deemed them unworthy somehow.
Literal fucking feudal-ass mindset.
Of course they all *think* they are in the first group.....
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u/bollvirtuoso 2d ago
It's not really parroting. It comes from having been in a cold war with a communist/socialist superpower for forty-five years, where any misstep could have led to the end of life on Earth. Is it still meaningful today? Probably not as much. But those former Soviet and Socialist states should at least serve as cautionary tales for how not to implement socialism.
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u/LouManShoe 2d ago
I mean I feel like you can summarize capitalism like that… it generally doesn’t benefit the average person. Of course there are exceptions. I’m not really arguing for communism either, as we’ve seen that be broken too. The problem is that government systems rarely work for all of its constituents. Most of the time they benefit a select few, sometimes a larger group, and in rare cases most (but not all) of its people. Then as that governmental form continues, the population of people it hurts gets bigger and the people it helps gets smaller. It gets labeled as capitalism or communism or whatever, and brands opposition as some form of opposing government.
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u/Dapper-DL 2d ago
It doesn’t benefit the average person? I assume you’re talking purely in terms of actual capital.
You should probably think about what capitalism has done for you (and be honest), and maybe rephrase your comment.
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u/WindHero 3d ago
Americans and non Americans are brainwashed to think that socialism is Norway and not the USSR.
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u/SnooKiwis9751 3d ago
That literally is what socialism is? Socialism is collective ownership. Literally the whole point is not bleeding your life away for the people who aren’t doing the work just because they already had money. The brainwashing is that it’s a bad thing not to bleed your life away. That you’re somehow a moral failure for not sucking off the shareholders
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u/Remote-Analyst-6090 3d ago
Actual socialism is a lot further on the political scale than everything US conservatives are calling socialism.
The commentor you're replying to is referring to the fact that Norway, in this example, is a social democracy, not socialism. Important distinction, hence the idea that "not bleeding your life for your shareholders is socialism" is wrong.
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u/Yolosvend 3d ago
It is an actual socialist policy though. It's hard for anything to be any one ideology in a democracy.
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u/Trrollmann 3d ago
Socialism also having a policy does not make the policy socialist.
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u/plantsarefrens 2d ago
Also it's policy that only works inside a successful capitalist system
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u/The_Little_Ghostie 2d ago
When something aligns with the ideological aims of socialism (in this case wealth distribution based on individual contribution) you can certainly make an argument that it is
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u/Tomatwoo 3d ago
its not. welfare/social safety nets/social insurance (that last one is effectively what the original post is) existed long before both capitalist and socialist economies. the US even has social insurance policies although they are far less indepth compared to some european countries.
these systems can exist under both capitalism and socialism just fine, and do.
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u/bannabananabanna 3d ago
so a free market economy with state funded healthcare is not collective ownership
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u/LesserValkyrie 3d ago
This is where the irony is IMO
Paying more taxes so your kids can go to the university without putting his feet in a bank (whose job in that situation is to extract billions$ of money through the interest rates from the people who are not ultra rich --- how terrifying is it for a society to makae a 18yo kid do business with them unless it is to buy a home ?) = socialism = bad
Or paying banks with interest rates so high that sometimes they can't even pay the loan itself, they just pay the interests = capitalism = good
The US pay more than the others on average for education or healthcare, but for them as long as they pay shareholders or banks it's good, if it's for their own interests it's socialism.
They are always ready to scream "parasite" while paying 20% interest rates to various banks for things that every developed countries in the world dont' even know it can be troubles for anyone
I mean a bank worked hard to get all that money, while your son is a parasite who paid nothing why would he get an education for "free"
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u/Cyborg_rat 3d ago edited 2d ago
Canadian here, it's not free, it's lower for sure than the US but only thing that are free are for the 11 million out of 38 million Canadians who are under the poverty line. The 38 work to make the system work, while getting screwed by taxes and companies.
The hospital is ~freeish it often helps but you also got extremely long wait times and chances of dieing while waiting.
It's great to have a back up for being sick and out of work but they want the working people back to work asap but if your a system grifters you're living the life(if trailer thrash level of quality is your thing, we have many of those types)
Edit: my bad for 11 million was for low to modest Income that were receiving grocery benefits.
The Combined number for poverty: total of 5,274,505 Canadians were living either in or at risk of poverty, accounting for 14.3% of the total population.
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u/BiggeSquidde 3d ago
I like how you were down voted by clueless American wannabe socialists for describing the actual conditions within socialized Healthcare lmao
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u/bino420 3d ago
woahhh. there's way too much nuance to simply state "socialism is X"
socialism is both a political and economic term, and sometimes it's both at once.
Marx and Engels defined socialism as the transitory system between Capitalism and Communism. It's like an economic & political system of redistributing wealth based on the value the workers contribute to society.
This can be accomplished in many ways. Primarily, they imagined the proletariat would take over government & figure it out. But once it's figured out, and the proletariat owns the means of production as well as defines the systems, then it becomes Communism.
So socialism could be a kinda transition state where some of our systems our publicly owned, our government is compromised of mostly the working class, and wealth is equally distributed.
But in a modern sense, we've combined socialism with democracy & capitalism... so if you said, what's socialism as it manifests in society today, you'd definitely point to democratic socialist nations. They think of socialism a "safety net" where your basic needs can be provided by the government if you're unable to meet them yourself, so like you don't own the means of production but you can still reap some benefits - you're just not getting a state-issued TV set (which IMO would be more like Marx's world). ... and it's far less "communities own their infrastructure." They don't really push the wealth distribution thing or UBI.
and then now in America there's a push for democratic socialist figures, but they're more like "give political power to the proletariat" right now and far less focused on the economic aspects... as we imagine the end goal is wealth distribution but not specifically "community ownership" at all.
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u/DevNopes 2d ago
They don't really push the wealth distribution thing
In Norway we kinda do, we just call in "lowering wealth inequality". Many studies support the idea that a lower wealth inequality is beneficial for a society.
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u/ohhellperhaps 3d ago
Pretty much none of what Americans commonly call socialist is socialist...
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u/Punch_A_Police_Horse 2d ago
Honestly for a lot of us we accept that it's easier to just throw our hands in the air and say "fuck it, fine, we're socialists." than get into an argument about what socialism actually is every fucking time. Practically speaking, it's just screaming into a hurricane.
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u/Interesting-Big-5605 2d ago
Yeah, it really comes down to how much someone cares about changing things. People who care and want more services aren't going to call it socialist, because that's toxic in the swing areas that matter the most, electorally. People like Bernie Sanders, who has never worked hard on legislation, will call it socialist, because they don't really give a shit.
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u/FragranceCandle 2d ago
as a norwegian too; I'm just glad they figured out we're not communists
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u/trippy_grapes 2d ago
Why would you scream into a hurricane when you could just shoot it with guns, drop a nuke on it, or have a magic sharpie that steers it away?
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u/Professional_Pie9406 3d ago
Both pay for the lightbulbs, so neither has to clean the bathroom in darkness.
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u/Dexter_Douglas_415 3d ago
Thank you. There are 5 socialist countries in the world and Norway isn't one of them.
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u/Savings-Double-2853 3d ago
But healthcare is not socialism
And Norway is not socialist
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u/Spirited_Peak_7810 3d ago
Yeah I love the top comment here about Americans not knowing what socialism is. The irony is strong.
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u/jaynoj 3d ago
They have been brainwashed since the cold war (or even WW2) that anything which benefits anyone other than themselves or their country is communism, oh and socialism == communism.
Meanwhile people die or go bankrupt because their medical insurance they pay $0000's per year on won't actually pay for their health issue, that's if they're fortunate to have medical insurance. If you don't, well good luck because you're fucked now.
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3d ago
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/HumanOptimusPrime 3d ago
What’s ironic, in the true sense of the word, is that the Norwegian is claiming Norway is a socialist state, when trying to inform the OP about socialism. It’s not. Norway is a social democracy.
You see, "irony" is more than just stating the opposite of what is true, or liking something even though you know it’s lame and cringe. This can arguably be a case of "situational irony", where the person who sets an example of what the OP is misunderstanding, but they’re contradicting the very thing they try to explain.
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u/HeyGayHay 2d ago
He isn’t saying Norwegian is socialist tho. He is responding to someone claiming that paying taxes is socialism, by elaborating why taxes can be a good thing
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u/Navicule 3d ago
Exactly my thought. It's just basic state protection in a liberal system, which is the case for all European countries.
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u/throwawaygoawaynz 3d ago
Let’s not pretend it’s a European thing. Most of the world has this including Asia. Even in some quite non-liberal places, they still provide healthcare.
The only country that doesn’t…
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u/nomad5926 3d ago
But when rhe US wants Healthcare like that they call it socialism.
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u/Brrdock 2d ago
That's because it is socialist, not socialism, but Americans (and many others) are still stuck circlejerking McCarthy's ghost rent-free so they can't see the world beyond black and white dichotomy
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u/nomad5926 2d ago
Oh you're 100% correct. That's sort of why I like to point out the hypocrisy/inability to know nuanced terms.
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u/Particular-Solid8250 2d ago
Either you're with us, or you're with the (pick one from the list)
- Terrorists
- Socialists
- Communists
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u/trq- 3d ago
And the initial example from the guy in the picture is not socialism as well, so it does fit in the end, huh
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u/The1DayGod 3d ago
In the USA anything that involves tax dollars going to the betterment of society as a whole instead of lining the pockets of the obscenely rich is socialism.
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u/Randomly-Generated21 2d ago
The right sure believes in socialism when it comes to bailing out failing companies or keeping wages low and directing their employees on how to apply for government assistance.
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u/Frosty-Section-9013 3d ago
Truer to actual socialism would be if the kids took over the house and ran it for themselves. But it’s still a bad analogy since they would also have to take over their parents’ jobs.
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u/theslootmary 3d ago
In that sense, yes it is. In the same way that roads paid for by taxes are also socialist. And so is the military.
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u/Jire 3d ago
Which is still capitalism.
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u/FartingWithStyle 3d ago
You pay the brother $10 then he hires the other to do the work for the minimum he can pay.
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u/50mm-f2 3d ago
no he bribes the parent with $5 to give him $17 and his brother $3 but he doesn’t actually take the $17 so on paper he doesn’t have it and doesn’t have to give up his portion of the $7 and instead he borrows $17 to buy twitter
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u/Mind1827 2d ago
He also creates a cartel for all the other kids in the neighbourhood where they have to work for his company to get paid less and he makes lots of money as the CEO of Definitely Not Child Slavery Because We Pay Them Minimum Wage Corp.
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u/AntiqueRedDollShoes 2d ago
Yeah, both models are wrong. To get us somewhere closer to socialism, I'd say, as a thought experiment: the children collectively run the household chores as a cooperative. Together, they decide what work needs to be done, how to divide it, and what counts as a fair contribution according to their age and ability. Everyone’s food, shelter, healthcare, and basic allowance are guaranteed regardless of how many chores they completed that week. The household allowance fund belongs to everyone rather than to a parent-employer. Some money may be divided among the children, while some is reserved for shared purchases and for supporting anyone who is sick or unable to work. No outside owner keeps a profit from their labor.
I think, overall, it's kinda silly to use household chores and parental duties as a model for socialism, but what I'm outlining above probably gets a lot closer to socialism than what the two OP tweeters are talking about ^
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u/Creepy_Assistant7517 3d ago
Second one is social market economy, the prevailing economic system in Europe ... though fair enough, since most us-americans using the term 'socialism' do include that model (while a true socialist would disparage social market economy as capitalism with extra steps)
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u/dobrowolsk 3d ago edited 3d ago
Americans' understanding of social and economic policies is SO far off to the right, it would take decades of information campaigns to repair it even half-way.
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u/Vanir-Aesir 3d ago
americans have no idea what socialism is
they use the term just like they use "terrorism" - just a blank label for anything they dont like
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u/lfenske 3d ago
Except Americans already set aside 26%
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u/RewardWanted 3d ago
To send straight to you know who
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u/Even_Entrepreneur_58 3d ago
Careful now
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u/hizashiYEAHmada 3d ago
I love that there's a GIF for everything
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u/Even_Entrepreneur_58 3d ago
It’s much funnier if you know the context of the gif
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u/oldRoyalsleepy 3d ago
Voldemort?
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u/maeshughes32 3d ago
Worse
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u/Indiggy57 2d ago
Expelled?
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u/Brutal-Gentleman 3d ago
And the rest.. If you factor in health insurance and additional taxes they are much higher.
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u/moccasinsfan 3d ago
Apparently neither do Norwegians. The example he gave isn't socialism.
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u/Isosceles_Kramer79 3d ago
Socialism is an economic system predicated on the public ownership and control of means of production. Not a capitalist system + universal healthcare.
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u/wrathful-anus 3d ago
By American logic, fire and police services are socialism and should be abolished.
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u/CanMountain2230 3d ago
Don’t forget about schools and this cool thing the government subsidizes called electricity
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u/Hell_Awaitz 3d ago
Communism is when I can't buy murder weapons in my local supermarket
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u/Away_Stock_2012 2d ago
That's just the tip of the iceberg. Americans are really stupid, but they are also violent, so you know it all works out.
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u/Orpdapi 2d ago
that’s what Republican conservative do, they love throwing out ism and ist words like socialist, fascist, leftist, etc. because they sound big and scary but often they can’t even define what they actually mean. The nuances don’t matter they’re just supposed to keep their voters scared.
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u/RightVeterinarian379 3d ago
But it's not socialism, it's a market economy with redistribution, the wealth of Scandinavia is based on the protection of private property and entrepreneurship, and not on "severance pay"
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u/Wafflebot17 3d ago
Norway is a market economy, they just have a strong social safety net. Also the main reason they can do what they do is because they managed their oil money well.
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u/NickRomancer 3d ago
Capitalism, in this case, is when a mother offers $10 for cleaning the bathroom.
The eldest son takes the $10 and makes his younger brother clean the bathroom, giving him $2 only.
And the younger brother should be grateful to the older brother, since the older brother gave the younger brother a job.
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u/Arbitraryandunique 3d ago
But he's a "job creator" /s
They always ignore that most of those jobs would still need to be done, and without the middlemen it would easily end up both cheaper for the buyer (mom) and more profitable for the worker (little bro)
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u/psilocin72 3d ago
Yes. This is capitalism. The resources exist but are controlled by a tiny minority. The vast majority work to extract those resources and are paid a small fraction of the value of their work.
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u/hbthegreat 3d ago
the younger brothers fault for not taking advantage of the opportunity of the hiring mother adn getting the full $10 for himself.
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u/trukkija 3d ago
Yes, and this "socialism" would be more like the mother offering $10 but then taking $3 of that and giving it to dad, who uses it to provide a safe environment for you, schooling, housing, transportation (in the kid's situation) and pay your medical bills when needed.
Awful waste of money, I know. The kid wishes he could spend that on private insurance fees instead.
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u/Hell_Awaitz 3d ago
And even then it's more social capitalism than actual socialism. Americans are so scared of taxes it's unreal
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u/mariposa-princess 3d ago
I say this as someone who’s not afraid of more taxes, but It’s because we never see our taxes go to good use. Cities are run down, potholes never get filled (and if they do it’s a hack job) nothing new gets built, we pay out the ass for healthcare, when we do need benefits like unemployment they’re dogshit and barely payments that get you by.
It all goes to bombing kids in other countries. So I do understand people not wanting to pay more money when the money they’re paying now isn’t working for them.
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u/Pans_Labradoodle 2d ago
I get what you’re saying, but people bitched about taxes at every stage of our country’s history, through the good times and the bad. We started a whole war over taxes for chrissakes.
The truth is America is a fiercely individualistic society that feels no responsibilities towards their fellow citizens.
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u/xubax 3d ago
The one thing I have to say about potholes, and I'm not involved in Big Pothole at all, is that it's a never ending job. If you really think about how much roadway there is and how much of it does NOT have potholes, you might realize in most of the country, it's not that bad.
I'm sure there are some localities where the roads are just one big pothole. But for the most part, I think it's a distraction from the other issues.
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u/mariposa-princess 3d ago
There are definitely bigger issues than potholes but there’s a popular historical metaphor than Roman’s didn’t know Rome fell until no one came to fix the bridges and aqueducts. And I think that’s a modern version of it. The infrastructure not being fixed adequately is a sign to civilians things are going poorly
Because while it is something that has to be fixed over and over and over again, it would be fine if we allocated the money and created the jobs for it. But we just don’t because our money is going elsewhere.
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u/Away_Stock_2012 2d ago
Most Americans have no understanding of the difference between local and national taxes/government.
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u/koalasarentferfuckin 3d ago
Our government has weaponized their incompetence. I don’t trust the government with our tax money the same way my wife doesn’t trust me to weed the garden. But I have NEVER murdered a school full of children when I meant to remove some ragweed so I guess it’s a little different.
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u/Eastern_Tap_9723 3d ago
Im scared of taxes because its the equivalent of handing a 10 year old a credit card that I am trying to pay off.
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u/False-Buddy9209 3d ago
You clearly do not understand at all that America an a whole does not make up our local state laws. In my state we put a small percentage aside for unforeseen circumstances as well. We have higher taxes for this.
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u/antidense 3d ago
I'm reading Educated, and it really feels that so many people are so afraid of their own stupidity that they double down on it in deeply destructive ways.
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u/a_x_shually 3d ago
Because we very rightfully have no faith in those who distribute those taxes, and to whom.
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u/Worth-Reputation3450 2d ago
If the fed takes 24% of my income, state takes 9%, and then social security takes 6%, and some other ~2% taxes because fuck you, and then Los Angeles now put 10.25% sales tax, they take ~40% before I get to see my money and ~10% when I spend money. THEN they fucking complain about over budget every fucking year.
Why should I NOT be scared of tax? It's literally sucking half of my life's work.
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u/Isosceles_Kramer79 3d ago
Norway is not socialist. But it is a petrostate (large oil production/revenues per capita).
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u/Orfiosus 3d ago
The mix of socialism and capitalism is kinda the point. Norway is not a purely capitalist country either.
The oil industry is an example of this, but the other Scandinavian countries with similar models make it work without the wealth fund.
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u/Moderately_Imperiled 3d ago
Are you suggesting societies are complex and may not fit neatly into one or even two conventionally used labels?
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u/TestyBoy13 3d ago
What do you mean there’s nuance? If my world view isn’t black and white I don’t want to understand it!
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u/J_Kingsley 3d ago
Yes, it's always been about balance.
Today's political discourse has no effing nuance. Either have to be late stage exploitive capitalism, or exploitive communism.
The fun part is when you try and talk about balance the extremist idiots say you're a pussy and to pick a side.
Fucking idiots.
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u/Piemaster113 3d ago
And the US spends a larger % of taxes on Spciao programs than the military so its very similar in that aspect
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u/johncitizen1138 3d ago
Yeah I was looking into this yesterday trying to better understand why Scandanavia works like it does. A high trust, low-population society, long history of mostly homogenous, lutheran work/social ethic with an applied layer of economic Free Markets on top. It's really interesting. I wonder how difficult it would be to export elsewhere 🤔
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u/Orfiosus 2d ago
I think the main hurdle is the trust and transperancy part. Free press is also integral as a watchdog and the state-financed channel has done its job remarkably well.
I don’t get the impression the US population ( as an example) trusts government to act in their best interest, and the media seems to be mostly controlled by a few oligarchs with an agenda. I could be wrong of course.
Implementing this in many African or American states would be a tall order I think.
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u/johncitizen1138 2d ago
Yeah. I've been thinking on just "western" nations and it still seems difficult. I think somewhere like New Zealand gets closest due to size? I think the bigger the population the harder it is it to think as a collective 🧐
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u/2_piece_jigsaw 3d ago
yeah, i think the first person is giving a deliberately bad-faith interpretation to try and misrepresent socialism to their children while they’re still young and especially impressionable
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u/conservatore 3d ago
That’s not really answering the point the first person was trying to make
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u/psilocin72 3d ago
That’s because the first persons point is garbage. Socialism is not taking money from someone who worked and giving it to someone who didn’t work.
It’s more like everyone works and if I break my leg, I still get to eat.
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u/yotabytes 3d ago
Two kids are tasked to go out and offer neighbours to wash their cars and return with the money in their wallet.
One of them gets paid £10, comes home and shows the wallet. They get to keep 6£ and 4£ is taken away.
The other goes and tells the neighbour "if you don't put the money in my wallet, but instead leave it under my window later, I'll do it for £9". He comes home and says he didn't manage to earn anything this time. He finds £9 under his window and nothing is taken away.
After a while, there is not enough money to cover shared benefits for all kids. The new rule is that instead of taking £4 away and keeping £6, kids now have to hand over £5 and keep £5.
This goes on for a little while and both kids do 100 jobs, but the second kid brings home money in his wallet from only 25 of those jobs and the rest is left under his window.
Then, both kids decide they want to move into their own house. There is only one house available for two kids. The first kid offers £450, almost everything he has saved up.
The second kid managed to save considerably more and offers £500. The house is sold to the second kid.
The second kid decides to not move into the house but instead, rent it out to the first kid for £100 a year. The first kid keeps working to pay the rent, while the second kit waits for the next house to come up for sale, at which point he uses the first kids' money to outbid him.
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u/Gerzy_CZ 3d ago edited 2d ago
Ahh, another day of redditors glazing over socialism, even though they're from countries that never experienced it.
Come to one of the post communist countries and try to tell people who experienced it fully how great socialism actually is when your only info is what you've learned on your college.I am sure those people will be extremely happy.
Edit: since you guys are starting to get a little bit crazy with these takes and you love communism and socialism so much I'll just say this. I am not even from America so frankly, I don't care. In fact, I wish you guys the socialism. Seriously, as someone from a post communist country arguing with college Americans about socialism on Reddit is always the same story. Then I get called out I am not even from a post communist country since I share actual experiences. That's all, I am not an American conservative so you guys can chill now.
Edit2: so I got warning from Reddit? Interesting, seems like this comment triggered way too many people. I am actually no longer surprised at the state of the USA and who won the elections, if left wing acts like this. Love how these redditors start throwing insults first, I answer with insults and then get reported. I am not letting some random Reddit socialist call my country a nazi country, throw insults at me or call me a LIAR for saying things I know are true? Seriously, what became of Reddit and it's community should be studied.
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u/LonelyTurtleDev 3d ago
You don’t need to find people in ex-socialist states, just having relatives on the other side is enough to make someone understand socialism.
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u/Any-Astronomer-6038 3d ago
More like... One kid works for 100 dollars... Another kid works for 10...
The government takes 30 from the first kid and .50 from the second kid... Puts it in a pot... Then blows up Iran with it
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u/Intrepid-Focus8198 3d ago
I am completely convinced that the overly aggressive anti socialists don’t really understand what it means.
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u/ResponsibilityBest26 2d ago
I live in a country where 60% of my workforce is taken by the state. In exchange, I get penury, stagnation, and expensive price. To stop it, people are asking for fixed-price policies, even if we build nothing ourselves. It can only end well.
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u/Admirable_Admiral69 3d ago
I find it incredible that so many people in the US use "socialist," "communist," "leftist," and "Marxist" interchangeably.
They can't define a single one either. I tried explaining up my mom that all communists are leftists, but not all leftists are communists; and all Marxists are communists, but not all communists are Marxists, so therefore all Marxists are leftists but not all leftists are Marxists; and all socialists are leftists too but socialism is a COMPLETELY different political ideology from communism. Her takeaway was confirmation that leftists are communists and socialists.
So I tried explaining it in a different way that white nationalists are "rightists," and Christian nationalists are rightists as well. All (or most) white nationalists are Christian nationalists, but not all Christian nationalists are white nationalists. Then you have constitutionalists, libertarians, neoliberals, maga, tea party, and your run of the mill conservative who are also rightists. And obviously her takeaway was that I was calling her a white nationalists and a racist. I wasn't, but she is.
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u/giangiangelo 3d ago
Yeah it’s quite easy for Norway since they’re like 5 millions people and export a huge amount of oil. Economy doesn’t work like that everywhere
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u/Daseinist 3d ago
Denmark exports nothing of sorts and relies on their human capital. It was also a poor agrarian country after WWII. Their gdp per capita is almost equal to US.
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u/IndubitablyNerdy 3d ago
Agree plus the USA has so many competitive advantages (massive access to natural resources vasty more than Norway, the world reserve currency, hegemonic military and economic power, a massive territory, a de-facto private continent safe from conflict), the reason why their welfare state sucks is absolutely by choice not due to resource constraints.
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3d ago
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u/S-Kenset 3d ago
I mean we have PLENTY of nuclear power to use and PLENTY of land where it's safe to feed it into the grid. Our energy costs are honestly a bit manufactured.
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u/TimChr78 3d ago
The majority of the worlds population has access to some version of universal healthcare. Of “western” demographics the USA is the only country without universal healthcare.
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u/stormypumpkin 3d ago
The scandinavian welfare systems predate north sea oil by like 50+ years. It started with german pension schemes in the 1890 and was imported and popularized in the interwar period.
Also denmark and sweden have similar systems with almost no oil.
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u/trustmebro4202 3d ago
Teach them that sharing toys means everyone plays, hoarding toys means nobody has fun.
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u/silv3rbull8 3d ago
That isn’t socialism. Also in Norway, the government invests profits from their oil industry into a retirement fund for the entire population. Each Norwegian automatically gets part of that
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u/Conscious_Ad3246 3d ago
Well that is just argueing about a welfare system. Neither of them are talking about socialism.
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u/Lozanger29 3d ago
I remember when Bernie in 2015 referred to Denmark as an example of socialism that America should follow. The danish prime minister at the time was like, no we aren’t socialist, we are a market economy with good welfare.
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u/wingedwild 3d ago
Sounds fun until u imvite 3rd world migrants who dont want to work and want to live off your money
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u/Cyan_Kurrokawa 3d ago
Isn't it weird that the progressives have such a hard on for predominantly white, northern European countries...
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u/rebelSun25 3d ago
This must go hard if you have luke warm water temperature IQ.
No, kids, socialism isn't working for $10 and being able to draw on imaginary funds when you can't work. That's called unemployment insurance, and you get that now even in non socialist countries.
Socialism is authoritarian repression and complete economic stagnation.
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u/psilocin72 3d ago
I’m not a proponent of full socialism, but that’s not accurate.
Socialism and authoritarianism are not intrinsically linked. A fascist country can be authoritarian, as we saw in WW2 era. And a socialist country can be democratic.
You’re combining two things that are not the same.
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u/kpatsart 3d ago
People just latch onto whatever ideological side tells them what the definition or words mean and stand on it, in absolutes. Ironically most people who claim they're against socialism use socilaist programs like healthcare, transportation, schools, parks, etc. On a daily basis, lol.
We are living in a era of signficant illiterate igrnoance, it is truly wild.
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u/ethanbarmstrong 3d ago
Uh as someone that has worked for a while now in a capitalist system, I can't tell you how many people I've worked with that do a worse job than me but get paid more than I did.
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u/DiscombobulatedSir74 3d ago
Thats what happens already you genius, do you think you get paid more if you work harder?
No you get a warm handshake and more work, while your coworkers get paid the same
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u/BallsOutKrunked 2d ago
I've worked really hard in my career and make a lot of money. Much more than people who haven't. Very anti-reddit, I know.
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u/Not-So-Logitech 3d ago
Except that after a few weeks they'll have both contributed over $10, so the parent has a nice little nest egg, and will only see $3 when they get sick because that's all they qualify for?
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u/FattyGyoza 2d ago
Do you know why socialism is so heavily criticized in the USA?
Simply because the poor do not consider themselves poor, but rather billionaires temporarily down on their luck.
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u/WaldoSupremo 2d ago
“Socialism is an economic and political philosophy advocating that the community or state—rather than private individuals—should own and manage a society's resources and means of production. The core goal is to reduce inequality and ensure that wealth and services are distributed equitably based on human need rather than private profit.”
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u/cerevant 2d ago edited 2d ago
I don't know how being a kid could be any more socialist:
- You always have a safe home and food to eat
- You are expected to contribute to the best of your ability, but access to food and shelter won't be contingent on your production.
- Healthcare and education are paid for
- If one kid gets more of something than the other, the parents hear about it.
edit: oh, and I almost forgot: they won't appreciate an iota of it until it is gone.
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u/duggee315 2d ago
Sooo, maybe Norwegians are telling their kids about capitalism. Tell one kid to clean the bathroom, pay them $100, then take $90 for the boss who did none of the work, $4 for health insurance, then another $80 for the bandaid they needed for the scratch they got cleaning , $8 for rent, $5 for food. Throw the other child out on the street to die because they didnt earn anything. And then throw them out on the street anyway because they cant afford to live even though they worked.
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u/ValuableBet7311 2d ago
Socialism would be to give both 1 dollars every day before doing the work, then ask which one wants and is better at cleaning, who wants to do another chore. Then they both work on the tasks they like, without worrying about money
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u/russwestgoat 2d ago
And gets free education. And if they end up in hospital it won’t destroy their life. And low crime rates and recidivism. Freedom you say?
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u/AridGentleman 2d ago
This can be even easier explained. Keep the first example, and tell the kid who received his paycheck is a billionaire receiving taxpayer ( your income) bailouts and government aid. He will understand the true welfare class
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u/presidoener 2d ago
This woman is a great example how blithering stupid conservatives/Republicans are
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u/MaximusHomerdrive 2d ago
Anyone just spewing shit about socialism has absolutely zero idea how it works and are just proving our point on why we need socialism. If they only had the brain power to see that this is miles better than our current system of the rich feasting on the poors.
This country wants nothing more than to keep the dum dums eternally stupid so they keep reproducing bodies to fuel the war machine, as the military is their only way out a lot of the time.
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u/TristanTheRobloxian3 2d ago
somebody doesnt understand how socialism works...
also neither does half this comment section clearly. shit i saw someone acting like authoritarianism and socialism *have* to go hand in hand when they dont. neither does authoritarianism and captialism. socialism (and communism but thats different) and capitalism are just economic systems. neither one is inherently better than the other, and whether someone is authoritarian or totalitarian or democratic or whatever has absolutely nothing to do with any of that.
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