r/Overseas_Pakistani Oct 13 '23

Weekend Thread | ہفتہ وار تبادلۂ خیال /r/Overseas_Pakistani Weekend thread (October 13, 2023)

3 Upvotes

This is our weekend thread. Feel free to share how your week went, what's on your mind, or anything else.

It doesn't even have to be relevant to the theme of this subreddit,but please keep the discussions civil as all other rules are enforced.

Lastly, please don't forget to check out our Twitter . Thank you!


r/Overseas_Pakistani Feb 20 '22

Immigration | مہاجرت و سفر NICOPs and Pakistani Citizenship

41 Upvotes

TL;DR - if you have a NICOP, you are a Pakistani citizen, even if you never set foot in Pakistan. If you were ever Pakistani citizen, then more then likely, you probably still are. If you don't want to be a Pakistani citizen, you have to go through a procedure to surrender it. Read on for more details.

I've seen a lot of posts over the years that discuss NICOPs and Pakistani citizenship. Every few weeks, someone asks if having a NICOP is Pakistani citizenship. I've also met many Pakistanis (overseas and within Pakistan) that don't understand how citizenship in Pakistan works for those who go or are overseas.

Contrary to what many people think, Pakistani citizenship is not automatically voided when a Pakistani naturalizes in another country. Even if your oath of naturalization says that you surrender all foreign allegiances, the citizenship remains.

Many older Pakistanis, especially those who left Pakistan in the 1960s-1980s believe that their Pakistani citizenship was voided when they became British/Canadian/American, etc. This is not true per current Pakistani law. They simply don't have active IDs/passports. Just like a person born in the US or Canada. The person is a citizen even if they have no passport. Or, a child born in Pakistan without a B-Form, they are still Pakistani.

Pakistani citizenship can only be lost if one goes to a Pakistani consulate/embassy and goes through a formal renunciation process. This is not automatic, and most people don't do it because they simply don't need to or care to. It's not a complicated process, but it's still it's own, separate process. Fill out forms, surrender passport and ID, pay fees, etc. This is usually done by Pakistanis who naturalized in countries that don't allow dual citizenship, such as Germany, Spain, and (previously) Norway, but anyone can do it if they want.

Now, the confusion occurs because Pakistan will grant a visa to a UK/US/CAN citizen even if that person also has Pakistani citizenship. It's counterintuitive to need a visa to travel to a country in which you are a citizen, which is why many think "how could I still have Pakistani citizenship if I got a visa?". Pakistan, however, will allow a Pakistani citizen to travel to Pakistan on a foreign passport with a visa, hence the widespread confusion.

So here is where the NICOP comes in. NICOP stands for National Identity Card for Overseas Pakistanis. The card gives visa free travel, right to have a bank account, etc. It also gives the right to vote. This card is proof of Pakistani citizenship, and can be used to get a Pakistani passport if desired. Many people think this is just for dual citizens, but some Pakistanis working or studying abroad also have NICOPs even if they are only Pakistani.

Note that the new NICOP looks just like a Smart CNIC, but the "country of stay" will not be Pakistan, and the card will say "the holder is entitled to visa free entry" (something to this effect). Old NICOPs actually said "National Identity Card for Overseas Pakistanis" on them, but Smart NICOPs do not, so there is some confusion nowadays (people thinking that they have an NIC and not a NICOP)

Here is the biggest place where many people get confused. Many people in the 2nd, 3rd, and now 4th generation born abread have also received NICOP cards even if they were born with another citizenship (UK, CAN, US, etc). They are often under the impression that this is just a "card in place of a visa". "I don't have Pakistani Citizenship, that's just an ID". Not true. By getting a NICOP, you are basically registered as a Pakistani citizen who doesn't reside in Pakistan.

Other ways you could be still be a Pakistani citizen and not know it, assuming formal renunciation process was not done:

  1. If you were born in Pakistan and naturalized elsewhere, you are a dual citizen
  2. If you have, or ever had a NICOP, CNIC, CRC, B-form, you are a dual citizen
  3. If your birth was registered at the Pakistani consulate (Form S, or similar), then you would be a dual citizen
  4. If you ever held a Pakistani passport, you are a dual citizen.
  5. If you were listed as a child on your parents' Pakistani passport, you are a dual citizen. (In the old days, kids didn't have their own passports and travelled on their parent's passport)
  6. You were registered as a Pakistani citizen because your parents became Pakistani and applied for it on your behalf (Form M) - not common, but legally possible.

Pakistan does have another card, Pakistan Origin Card (POC), which grants visa free travel and a few other privileges. This card, however, is not Pakistani citizenship. So those who wish to travel often to Pakistan and don't want a visa, but also don't want a NICOP, may find the POC appealing.

Acquiring, renouncing, and/or retaining citizenship is a personal choice. This post was simply written to clarify the misunderstanding that "NICOP isn't citizenship" (again, NICOP is proof of citizenship).

Edit: It is a common misconception that Pakistani citizenship is only given to those who are "desi", Muslim, or those whose parents are Pakistani. This is not true. There are Pakistani citizens who are Hindu, Sikh, Christian, Buddhist, Ahmadi ,etc. "Desi" is a somewhat subjective term as well.

The Pakistan Citizenship Act grants citizenship to anyone born in Pakistan, even if the parents are non Pakistani. The only exception is for children of diplomats (which is not uncommon). There is no exception for refugees or even those who are in transit. This has been argued in court many times. So yes, that means that technically those who are of Afghani, Bengali, or Rohingya descent but born in Pakistan are technically citizens (there are many individual court cases, no class action case though). Of course the reality on the ground is different. Just as anyone born in the US or Canada is a citizen (children of refugees too), the same applies in Pakistan. People should be aware of this and not deny their fellow citizens their rights (don't get me started about the hypocrisy).


r/Overseas_Pakistani 25m ago

Immigration | مہاجرت و سفر Query regarding travelling to malaysia

Upvotes

Hello everyone,

I would really appreciate your guidance regarding travelling from Karachi, Pakistan to Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia.

I have a few questions before my flight:

  • I am a Pakistani citizen travelling from Karachi.
  • I have an Employment Pass (eVisa) for Malaysia.
  • My wife will be travelling with me on a Dependent Pass.
  • I have already completed my medical examination and Protector requirements.
  • What documents or checks are usually required at Jinnah International Airport, Karachi before departure?
  • Are there any additional formalities I should complete before flying?
  • Does my wife's passport require any medical examination, Protector, or any other endorsement before travel, or can she travel with her Dependent Pass without these requirements?
  • Is there anything else we should prepare to avoid any issues during check-in, immigration, or boarding?
  • Is there a need for OK TO BOARD STAMP on flight ticket and EVisa?

Any advice or experiences from those who have recently travelled to Malaysia on an Employment Pass and Dependent Pass would be greatly appreciated.

Thank you in advance!


r/Overseas_Pakistani 1h ago

Geopolitics | بیرون سیاسیات Need help

Upvotes

So since there's the man American Psycho so the visas are now very hard to find but is there any chance any of this community member can help me get one I really need to go out


r/Overseas_Pakistani 1d ago

Immigration | مہاجرت و سفر Converting Smart Card to NICOP

1 Upvotes

Hey everyone

I am a dual national with a valid Smart CNIC. My Pak passport is expired and I won't renew it, so I’m converting my card to a NICOP via the Pak-ID app.

To avoid the glitchy mess of adding an overseas address, can I just leave both my Permanent and Current addresses exactly as they are right now (both in Pakistan)?

Will NADRA reject a NICOP application if there is no overseas address on the profile?Can I still select an overseas delivery address at checkout if my profile address says Pakistan?

Trying to find the path of least resistance before paying. Thanks!


r/Overseas_Pakistani 1d ago

Careers & Education | تعلیم و پیشہ Overseas Pakistani- QAU

1 Upvotes

pls dm me if your are overseas Pakistani (already in QAU or applying this year)


r/Overseas_Pakistani 1d ago

Miscellaneous | مزید How do y'all get stuff sent to ur parents back home?

0 Upvotes

I was curious how y'all being overseas send necessary stuff like medicines etc to your parents especially if u don't have a any other family back home or trust worthy house help? Lookin for specifically in Islamabad. ( Not from abroad to Pakistan, but from city to city)


r/Overseas_Pakistani 2d ago

Miscellaneous | مزید Groom Outfit Suggestions for a December Wedding in Pakistan (Limited Time for Stitching)

1 Upvotes

Hi everyone,

I'm getting married this December, and my wedding reception/main function will be in the evening. I'm not currently living in Pakistan, but the wedding will be there, so I'll only be in Pakistan for a short time before the event.

Because of my limited time, I'm worried I won't have enough time for custom stitching if it takes too long. I'm looking for outfit ideas that would suit a December evening wedding and would also be practical given my timeline.

I'm considering options like a sherwani, prince coat, tuxedo, or any other elegant outfit, but I'm open to suggestions. If you know of designers, boutiques, or stores that offer ready-to-wear outfits or can stitch quickly with good quality, I'd really appreciate your recommendations.

Also, if anyone has been in a similar situation (coming from abroad for their wedding), I'd love to hear what worked best for you.


r/Overseas_Pakistani 2d ago

Careers & Education | تعلیم و پیشہ I built a free tool that finds visa-sponsoring jobs and drafts tailored CVs for them

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1 Upvotes

r/Overseas_Pakistani 2d ago

Miscellaneous | مزید PTA DIRBS - Unpaired my iPhone during 120-day registration and now can't pair it again. Has anyone faced this?

2 Upvotes

Hi everyone,

I'm an overseas Pakistani using the 120-day PTA temporary registration for my US iPhone 14 Pro Max (eSIM-only).

Initially, I paired both IMEIs through the DIRBS portal in a single application. Later today, I unpaired both IMEIs because I thought I needed to do that to activate my eSIM.

Now my application status shows "Unpaired", but when I try to submit a new pairing request, the portal says that both IMEIs are already registered, so it won't let me create a new application.

The 120-day registration is still active, and this all happened today.

Has anyone experienced this before?

  • Does the system automatically release the IMEIs after 24–48 hours?
  • Is there any way to re-pair the existing application, or is that not possible?
  • Did you have to contact PTA/DIRBS to get the IMEIs reset, and if so, how long did it take?

I'd really appreciate hearing from anyone who has gone through the same issue or knows the solution.

Thanks in advance!


r/Overseas_Pakistani 4d ago

Remittance | ترسیل رقم pseb certificate renew

2 Upvotes

Okay, so I’m hitting a roadblock with my PSEB certificate renewal and need some honest advice from you guys:

PSEB is now asking for a PRC with the correct freelance code, but here’s a CATCH. My salary comes into Bank Al Falah under a home remittance code (not freelance). So naturally, Bank Al Falah’s PRC won’t work for PSEB.

Here’s my idea: I have some money sitting in Payoneer, Nsave, and Elevate Pay. What if I transfer like $100 to my UBL account, get a UBL PRC with the freelance code, and upload that to PSEB instead? Will that actually work?

Also, if anyone’s done this before can you help me out how exactly do you get a PRC from UBL, Meezan Bank, or Bank Al Falah? What’s the process? Where do you go? How long does it take?

I know there’s got to be someone here who’s figured this out. Help a fellow freelancer out! 🙌


r/Overseas_Pakistani 4d ago

Careers & Education | تعلیم و پیشہ Applying abroad

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1 Upvotes

r/Overseas_Pakistani 5d ago

Immigration | مہاجرت و سفر Nikah Nama apostille

5 Upvotes

Is it possible to get the Urdu nikah nama apostilled as well?

My MRC from Nadra is already apostilled but the Belgium Embassy refused my visa and said you didn't provide the Nikah nama. Which doesn't make sense because an apostilled MRC is a much stronger proof of a valid marriage.

Regardless, now I want to get the Urdu nikah nama apostilled as well but I can't find any information about it. Does MoFA even apostille Urdu nikah nama at all?

Once apostilled, I'd have it translated from one of the embassies translators and resubmit the application.

Thank you.


r/Overseas_Pakistani 6d ago

Miscellaneous | مزید Credit Report or Letter of Good Standing from the Bank.

3 Upvotes

Hello everyone, I hope you’re all doing well.
Recently, I was shortlisted for a job here in Canada, and as part of the hiring process, I was asked to provide a credit report. Since I have never taken out a loan or used a credit card in my life, I tried using the Tasdeeq app to obtain one. However, I no longer have access to my old phone number because it became inactive after I moved to Canada.

The organization gave me an alternative option: to provide a Letter of Good Standing from my bank instead.

The problem is that my siblings visited the bank on my behalf to request the letter, but the branch manager refused to issue it to them. He said my physical presence is required. Unfortunately, I can’t travel all the way back to Pakistan just to obtain this document.

The bank advised me to contact someone higher up in the organization to send them a letter or authorization so they can issue the document without my physical presence.
I’m not sure how to handle this situation. If anyone has experienced something similar or has any advice, I would really appreciate your help. It would mean a lot to me.


r/Overseas_Pakistani 6d ago

Miscellaneous | مزید Foreign degree equivalence in Pak?

1 Upvotes

Hi!

Temporarily back in Pakistan and wanted to get my foreign bachelors degree attested (equivalence certificate) from the HEC. I’m not able to find something on the timeline online - how long does it usually take? I’ve already completed the application and fulfilled all requirements.

Thanks!


r/Overseas_Pakistani 7d ago

Miscellaneous | مزید Baby names

2 Upvotes

Please recommend Pakistani Muslim baby boy names for twins. Looking for unique names please!


r/Overseas_Pakistani 7d ago

Finance | معاشی Received an FBR CRS/AEOI notice regarding U.S. bank accounts. Anyone been through this?

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1 Upvotes

r/Overseas_Pakistani 7d ago

META Need help getting medicine from Pakistan to Muscat

1 Upvotes

Hi everyone,

I need a common medicine that I already have a prescription for; Metformin.

I tried to get it here in Muscat, but the doctor asked me to first complete a list of tests before issuing the prescription locally. I had already done a lot of those tests back in Pakistan, and based on those, a doctor there prescribed me the medicine.

The problem is that here in Muscat, my insurance isn't covering those tests, and they're quite expensive. So getting a local prescription just to buy the medicine isn't really an option for me right now.

I'm not planning to travel back to Pakistan for another 4–5 months, so I don't need a large supply, just enough to get by. If anyone is flying from Pakistan to Muscat, or knows someone who is, I'd be really grateful if they could bring me 4-5 small boxes of Metformin. It won't take up much space at all.

If you're able to help, please reach out. I'd really appreciate it. Thank you!


r/Overseas_Pakistani 7d ago

Careers & Education | تعلیم و پیشہ I need help to decide what to do next

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1 Upvotes

r/Overseas_Pakistani 8d ago

Miscellaneous | مزید Police certificate rawalpindi

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1 Upvotes

I am in UK and I want this certificate from Rawalpindi can my cousin apply on my behalf if he has a authority letter?


r/Overseas_Pakistani 8d ago

Miscellaneous | مزید Need a bit of help

1 Upvotes

hi everyone, i am coming from pakistan as a student to study in ankara, i need a bit of help to transition to this new place.
if any one can guide me abt how to get esims and what to choose when travelling from the airport to the university, it would be really appreciated.
plus if anyone who is coming from pakistan to study in ankara, please do let me know so that we can get know each other and figure out this new transition together or if any problems arises for any one of us
thank you


r/Overseas_Pakistani 8d ago

Finance | معاشی Best Bank to get Loan for overseas Pakistani

2 Upvotes

I’m looking to purchase a home worth around 4 crore. I do not qualify for the PM scheme, so I’d like guidance on the best home loan options available from banks. Could you also help me understand how to compare lenders beyond just the interest rate, such as processing fees, prepayment charges, flexibility, and overall loan terms? Please guide me on how to choose the best option. Thank you.

My research shows the following:
ABP 6 Cr limit
Meezan 1Cr limit

I would appreciate if people who have already done that can give me a take on this.


r/Overseas_Pakistani 9d ago

Immigration | مہاجرت و سفر visa loop

0 Upvotes

hi i’m an indian national living in uk i have a pakistani spouse i recently had to cancel a event with her because my visa is still not here i applied in manchester embassy a month back but no visa or response from them they keep saying ministry of interior is taking time then i called up interior they said they never even received an application can anyone pls help??


r/Overseas_Pakistani 9d ago

Immigration | مہاجرت و سفر Can I renew my Pakistani passport while my NICOP is still processing? Ko

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0 Upvotes

I applied for my NICOP under the modification category because my previous card expired and I have recently relocated to the USA.

Interestingly, the application didn’t prompt me for fingerprints or any form of attestation, which makes me a bit skeptical about whether everything went through correctly. Is this normal?

I urgently need to renew my Pakistani passport. Can I submit my passport application while this NICOP modification is still processing? Also, for the passport application itself, which platform is easier and more reliable to use—the website or the mobile app?


r/Overseas_Pakistani 9d ago

Miscellaneous | مزید Read

0 Upvotes

Anyone wanna join my Pakistani dc server?